Thread: just like the other from one to the other.

Is the size difference from a Atom and it's Proton's to the Solar System and Sun the same as the size difference between our Solar System and a Galaxy. Is the size difference between a Galaxy and the Universe the same as between Atoms to Stars to Galaxy's to the Universe
After our Universe's edge their is a very large void or voids with more and more universes spread out through Times expanding Space . Like groups of Atoms with their Protons ,or groups of Plaints orbiting around a stare . Theirs groups of stares held in orbit around a Black Hole forming a Galaxy that's part of groups of many billions of galaxy's to form our Universe and is part of multiple Universes . Now ''WHAT'' would multiple universes travel around . Theirs Uncountable Stares , Galaxy's , Universes and maybe uncountable multiple Universes . Did the big bang just get bigger. [ or do i just have to much time on my hands.]

Originally Posted by canoemantoo

Is the size difference from a Atom and it's Proton's to the Solar System and Sun the same as the size difference between our Solar System and a Galaxy. Is the size difference between a Galaxy and the Universe the same as between Atoms to Stars to Galaxy's to the Universe

Size of a proton: One femtometer (10^-15 meters)
Size of a hydrogen atom: (10^-10 meters)
Ratio: 10^5

Size of the sun: 1.4 x 10^9 meter
Distance with the same ratio: 1.4 x 10^14 meters, that's about 30 times the orbit of Neptune

Size of the Milky Way galaxy: 10^5 lightyears
Distance to "next" galaxy, Andromeda: 2.5 x 10^6 lightyears
Ratio: 25

The distance to closest planet to the sun, Mercury: 5.8 x 10^10 meters
If Andromeda were a planet, it would be nearly half the distance that Mercury is.

[ or do i just have to much time on my hands.]

You and me both, bub

There is an approximately common distance ratio of about 10^4.5 between each of these:
Hubble scale, galaxies, stars, planets, moons, x, y, cells, atoms, nucleons.
It applies to giant planets rather than Earth.
See Harmonics Theory Physics and Maths for the reason why this is so.

Originally Posted by RayTomes

There is an approximately common distance ratio of about 10^4.5 between each of these:
Hubble scale, galaxies, stars, planets, moons, x, y, cells, atoms, nucleons.
It applies to giant planets rather than Earth.
See Harmonics Theory Physics and Maths for the reason why this is so.

I looked through the article, but I'm stuck on one of the specifics there. My previous post pointed out that the Milky Way galaxy was about 10^5 lightyears across. Wouldn't that ratio make our star (sun) more than a lightyear across? Which structure exactly are you using for typical structure there?

The musical notes can be derived from harmonics a little more simply, maybe equivalently. A major chord is just the 4th, 5th, and 6th harmonics. In other words, three notes whose frequencies have the ratios 4:5:6. The notes CEG form a major chord, and you can go down from there, as FAC is a major chord, or up as GBD is a major chord. Those are the seven notes of our western music.

Originally Posted by grapes

The musical notes can be derived from harmonics a little more simply, maybe equivalently. A major chord is just the 4th, 5th, and 6th harmonics. In other words, three notes whose frequencies have the ratios 4:5:6. The notes CEG form a major chord, and you can go down from there, as FAC is a major chord, or up as GBD is a major chord. Those are the seven notes of our western music.

That's awesome!

I've known the numbers for a long time, but I didn't know this way of deriving them.

You do know though, that on most modern instruments, the E is about 0.8% too high, and the G is about 0.1% too low, right?

Just tempering, sure. I mean, "just tempering". If you continue that little game, going up or down octaves (doubling a frequency gives the same "note"), there is a discrepancy. The (6/4)^12 should be 2^7 (starting at C, CEG, GBD, DgA, AdE, EaB, Beg, gbd, dFa, aCe, eGb, bDF, FAC, back to C) but it's not, though close. Instead, making all the steps 2^(1/12) makes it close to 4:5:6 for all those major chords. Four steps between A and d (D flat), three steps between d and E, same ratios as for CEG and every other. Instead of 4:5, it's 2^(4/12); instead of 5:6, it's 2^(3/12).

Originally Posted by grapes

Just tempering, sure. I mean, "just tempering". If you continue that little game, going up or down octaves (doubling a frequency gives the same "note"), there is a discrepancy. The (6/4)^12 should be 2^7 (starting at C, CEG, GBD, DgA, AdE, EaB, Beg, gbd, dFa, aCe, eGb, bDF, FAC, back to C) but it's not, though close. Instead, making all the steps 2^(1/12) makes it close to 4:5:6 for all those major chords. Four steps between A and d (D flat), three steps between d and E, same ratios as for CEG and every other. Instead of 4:5, it's 2^(4/12); instead of 5:6, it's 2^(3/12).

The story I've heard is that the ratio was always this:



But this system necessitates retuning the instrument everytime the key changes. But the twelth-root-of-two system replaces the true ratios with the approximate ones:



Which is off a bit, but which (together with the half-tones) provides a twelve half-step scale that is tuned the same way in any key.

Have I got the story straight?

Look at where those fractions in your table come from. In your table, CEG is obviously 4:5:6, as I said. Taking GBD, G:B is clearly 4:5, but the D would have to be one octave higher, or 9/4, so G : D is 4:6.

FAC goes back down, one octave lower.

Originally Posted by grapes

I looked through the article, but I'm stuck on one of the specifics there. My previous post pointed out that the Milky Way galaxy was about 10^5 lightyears across. Wouldn't that ratio make our star (sun) more than a lightyear across? Which structure exactly are you using for typical structure there?

The scale concerned is the distance between like things, rather than their size, which unlike the spacing, is highly dependent on how you measure it. For distances, the ratios are fairly constant. For sizes not so.

The equivalent to a galaxy at the stellar scale is a solar system, not a star. The galaxy consists of a core and an extended disk, just as the solar system has a star and an extended disk of planets, asteroids comets, Kuiper belt etc.