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Thread: What is the difference between an intelligent computer and a life form?

  1. #31
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    Default Re: What is the difference between an intelligent computer and a life form?

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotech View Post
    You frequently don't know the differance. When you do you don't care. OT but all about you again. As usual. Knee jerk reactionary. Or just plain jerk.
    "Oh the Martins and the Coys
    They was reckless mountain boys
    and at "shoot to kill" they all became quite deft
    They knew they hadn't ought to do it
    but before they hardly knew it..
    on each side, they only had one person left..." ...
    mugaliens likes this.
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: What is the difference between an intelligent computer and a life form?

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    His "they follow orders to kill, right or wrong," comment is prima facia evidence he most certainly does not understand either the priorities or values of the military. I know this to be true because I was in the military, for twenty years. I was by no means the most highly decorated officer. I'd say about average for my rank and time in the service at my retirement:
    The point is, as a career military veteran, I know full well astrotech is talking out of his ass. Everyone else who's spent time in the service knows it, too. Ever ROE I've ever read spells out the rules of engagement in very clear and certain terms, and all members of the military are required to memorize it while in theater, and are held to exacting standards in terms of following them. Violations are swiftly and severely prosecuted. Hundreds of soldiers who violated the ROE are sitting in prison, with terms ranging from a few years to life.
    Rules of engagement are orders and can be orders to kill. True or false? You would have followed those orders to kill true or false? How may soldiers evaluate their orders to kill for right or wrong? Knowing you will qualify your comments to only apply to America military, we won't include NAZI, arab, japanese, chinese or russia military, what was Abu Grabe? Mei Lai? etc. Shall I post the names of all the military men involved who claimed to be following orders? One or two fell on their swords and took the fall and went to jail for a short time. The rest followed orders to kill wrongly. The rest of the military who knew about Mei Lai covered it up for 8 years.

    You got almost all the bases covered as to why I might despise the military. But you missed the real one. I was a victim of the U.S. military and I saw many criminal things they did. Only a few of which have resulted in convictions. But investigations are continuing and I expect more convictions. They all said they were following orders. The airborne troops (I got the name of their CO) who were ordered to tell all the people in my neighborhood that they were going to spray poison on our neighborhood and that we should all get out. There's more but in case you want to parse this was in the U.S.

    The differance between artificial intelligence military and human? There is a slim, almost non existant chance humans will refuse criminal orders. With robots there is no chance. Mugaliens example of integrity is no integrity at all. In fact I bet he disputes, qualifies or parses all the examples above.
    Last edited by astrotech; 09-12-2013 at 10:12 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: What is the difference between an intelligent computer and a life form?

    None of this matters, as long as there is a target rich environment.... in KillZone 3, that is.....
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  4. #34
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the difference between an intelligent computer and a life form?

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotech View Post
    Rules of engagement are orders and can be orders to kill. True or false? You would have followed those orders to kill true or false? How may soldiers evaluate their orders to kill for right or wrong?
    In twenty years of service, I've never seen an order "to kill" in any ROE, and I've been privy to several. The taking of lives isn't the objective. Securing a geographic area, repelling an attack, and stopping hostile actions have been the objectives, as have taking down a regime, training local military and law enforcement, and securing borders. In general, the edict is "do not fire unless fired upon," and as I mentioned previously, there are dozens of soldiers in prison for violating the ROE.

    Knowing you will qualify your comments to only apply to America military, we won't include NAZI, et all....
    Thank you. As I've never served in those militaries, I can't speak on their internal workings. Most students of history can easily see the results, so it really doesn't matter.

    what {sic] was Abu Grabe? Mei Lai? etc.
    Are you referring to Abu Ghraibe? The linked article is succinct, but reasonable. As for "Mei Lai," your spelling is too far gone. Unless you're referring to a character in the "Superman & Batman Generations 2" comic...

    If you're referring to the "My Lai Massacre" of March 16, 1968, it's taught in both the officers' commissioning academies, as well as the other commissioning pipelines (OCS, OTS), and covered again in various schools of PME (professional military education." It's precisely why we take the oath of office (signature line), namely, so that our loyalty is to the foundation of law and order in our country, rather than a single human being, such as a commander at any level. The enlisted take the same oath, with an additional line: "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice." They cover the ins and outs of their oath in boot camp and their own PME pipelines, as well.

    Both the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) specifically prohibit "orders to kill." However, they don't prohibit killing itself, either in self-defense or as collateral damage in a strike against an enemy target or in an operation to secure a geographical area or building. Put simply, if they surrender or drop weapons and flee, we're not going to shoot them. If they fire on us, all bets are off. The killing of either civilians or combatants for no other reason than to kill them, however, is prohibited, not only by our UCMJ, but also by the various international treaties signed by most nations throughout the world.

    Shall I post the names of all the military men involved who claimed to be following orders?
    No need. "I was just following orders" doesn't cut it as a legal defense to the charge of murder, and yes, that's precisely what My Lai was, as well as the reason why dozens of soldiers are in prison. They went "off the reservation," meaning they violated the ROE, were caught, tried, convicted, and sentenced.

    I was a victim of the U.S. military...
    A "victim?" How so?

    ...and I saw many criminal things they did. Only a few of which have resulted in convictions. But investigations are continuing and I expect more convictions. They all said they were following orders. The airborne troops (I got the name of their CO) who were ordered to tell all the people in my neighborhood that they were going to spray poison on our neighborhood and that we should all get out. There's more but in case you want to parse this was in the U.S.
    If this was in the U.S., then you should have no problem specifying the exact location, as well as the date and time. Under what conditions did they use the pretense of spraying poison?

    The differance between artificial intelligence military and human? There is a slim, almost non existant chance humans will refuse criminal orders
    You are very mistaken. It happens quite often. In fact, it's the duty of both officers and NCOs alike to question any order which violates the chain of law from the Constitution to the UCMJ to DoD regs to Service-specific regs to the General Orders for a theater of operations to the ROE for a specific engagement or campaign. And yes, we're expected to know all orders which apply to any situation which we may encounter.

    With robots there is no chance.
    With robots, there's no chance of situation-specific judgement, either.

    Mugaliens example of integrity is no integrity at all.
    Now you're back to being both stupid and petty. I thought your comments were good, and deserved a detailed answer, so I gave you one (above).

    In fact I bet he disputes, qualifies or parses all the examples above.
    Since that covers any and all responses, other than a raspberry... No bet.
    Last edited by mugaliens; 09-22-2013 at 04:59 PM.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

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  5. #35
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    Default Re: What is the difference between an intelligent computer and a life form?

    Not only that, but wounding is a lot more effective strategically than killing.....
    (although killing may be preferable as a survival tactic....)
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    Default Re: What is the difference between an intelligent computer and a life form?

    Wow this is full of knowledge discussion and i must say i have got a lot to learn through it,Basically at the moment there is a need of ways which are fine enough at working appropriately and at the same time getting the right things to understand is what moves on it.
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    Default Re: What is the difference between an intelligent computer and a life form?

    Tom brought it up first. Technological singularity is the point where humanity loses it's grasp on runaway innovation. But it doesn't necessarily need to involve AI.

    We are rapidly approaching a point where we can make ourselves faster, smarter, and cuter.

    Though I cannot be improved upon, the rest of you can, and should be...hehe. The simple fact is, is that a smarter human may come before a smarter machine, but the smarter machine will surely follow soon.

    I didn't read all the reply posts, but I feel sure that somebody mentioned Turing test. Briefly, if a computer thinks it is Justin Bieber, it might as well be, as far as I care ;p.

    The difference between an intelligent computer and a human would have to be, quite simply, it's goals.

    Humans desire longer life and appendages where as a computer requires data and power supply.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: What is the difference between an intelligent computer and a life form?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
    Humans desire longer life and appendages where as a computer requires data and power supply.
    The difference between non-sentience and sentience is the difference between data/power and desire.

    Sentient computers will want far more than mere data and power.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

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    Default Re: What is the difference between an intelligent computer and a life form?

    In modern conditions of development of computer technology is becoming urgent problem of the creation and improvement of Artificial Intelligence. Already today, modern computers allow to solve a variety of tasks, from controlling the operation of the washing machine before piloting airplanes or ensure the reliability of complex systems, such as the seaport, where you need to consider a variety of options to quickly analyze a complex situation and find the best solution. It would seem that the machines gradually replace, displace people from thinking practice. But it is not. Between natural and artificial intelligence, there are fundamental differences.

    First, when considering the question of human thinking, we must bear in mind that thinks not thinking and not the brain, and the person in its entirety. Facing its objectives are defined throughout the system of social relations in which man is turned on and which develops throughout his life. In the social interaction a person acts as a subject with a certain social position, and this fundamental difference between this interaction of information interaction of the machine.

    Secondly, a man in his interaction with the world is biased and therefore the solution of problems is always accompanied by emotional experiences. On the unity of affect and intellect also wrote Descartes. Thinking man is in unity with its need-motivational sphere. When we talk about the functioning of artificial intelligence, the emotional component of it is missing.

    Third, the mind, as it was shown in the works of Descartes, in its essence in detail. All the properties and features of the situation are considered to be meaningful, bearing the characteristics of human culture. The process of thinking machines formal and algorithmic reduced to information processing, rather than search for meaning.

    Fourth, to solve even the simplest tasks associated with quantitative calculations, the situation itself must be written in a special language, allows you to apply appropriate mathematical, physical or other formulas. Make it available for quantitative analysis. This makes the man. The peculiarity of artificial intelligence machine just consists in the fact that he is dealing with the information already translated into this language.
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