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Thread: Politically correct

  1. #1
    Moderator grapes's Avatar
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    Default Politically correct

    From our dear moderator's sig:
    As for PHYSICS, you've come to the right place! Truth without political correctness. We're REAL, people. "PC" is an enigma. Even the dictionary says it's a pejorative. If you want to talk politics, send me a PM.
    PC is not an enigma, it is a perjorative. In other words, it is used as an insult.

    A lot of seemingly neutral words can be used in an insulting manner (for instance, the word "ignorant". See this STatU thread: Mugailiens handing out infractions for using the word ignorant. ), but "politically correct" is probably not one of them. When applied to a person, it implies that that person's behavior has been modified to conform to some political model, perhaps out of laziness but possibly even out of fear of reprisal from the political group.

    So, to illustrate, using the example above, do we here at STatU avoid accusing each other of being "ignorant" because of PC? Possibly, there are posters who do avoid the term "ignorant" because they are afraid of retribution--and so their behavior would indeed be PC. They would rather insult others directly, but they don't for fear of moderation. That does not mean that all posters are PC because they avoid the use of "ignorant" as a perjorative--they might avoid it because they want to be polite.

    If someone is accused of PC, their motives are impugned. They may (or may not) just be trying to be nice, for instance, but the accuser is asserting that they have other, baser, motives--laziness or fear maybe.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Politically correct

    In some circles disputing the host or other guests is impolite. This leaves the field of conversation open only to the bores. Opening the field to dispute with politeness rules makes for arbitrary standards of politeness. What's polite for one is impolite for another. What's polite today is impolite tomorrow. Arbitrary standards are easy for tricksters to game. Figure out or lobby for where the line is drawn then fly just below and goad your more able opponent to cross it.

    The hecklers veto.

    If you can't goad the opponent to cross the line, either by yourself or by swarm, you can still hope the rulers, unable or unwilling to infract the goads, will shut down the conversation anyway "to keep the peace".

    So the strategy of the trickster is to lobby the rulers to hold that words that best describe the trickster are impolite.
    Last edited by astrotech; 02-04-2013 at 07:06 AM.
    Lies have the stench of death and defeat.

  3. #3
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politically correct

    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    If someone is accused of PC, their motives are impugned.
    Actually, I was referring to a BAUT moderator who was staunchly PC, including in public forum. Thus, the only "impugning" going on exists solely in your false allegations.

    Furthermore, BA/BAUT/CQ is one of the most PC websites on the planet. Your history of actions against well-credentialed/informed but non-PC members is legend. There's a reason most of the scientists and astronomers (yes, real astronomers) to whom I've mentioned BA/BAUT/CQ laugh when I've mentioned your website. I've stopped asking because I no longer wish to be negatively associated with your website.

    Third, I'd much rather be correct than sacrifice my scientific integrity by being "nice." Those who actually know me (parents, siblings, friends and neighbors) would, at worst, call me "opinionated," yet we all still manage to get together on a regular basis and have a very good time.

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotech View Post
    In some circles disputing the host or other guests is impolite. This leaves the field of conversation open only to the bores. Opening the field to dispute with politeness rules makes for arbitrary standards of politeness. What's polite for one is impolite for another. What's polite today is impolite tomorrow. Arbitrary standards are easy for tricksters to game. Figure out or lobby for where the line is drawn then fly just below and goad your more able opponent to cross it.

    The hecklers veto.

    If you can't goad the opponent to cross the line, either by yourself or by swarm, you can still hope the rulers, unable or unwilling to infract the goads, will shut down the conversation anyway "to keep the peace".

    So the strategy of the trickster is to lobby the rulers to hold that words that best describe the trickster are impolite.
    My primary criteria is accuracy, but some semblance of proper decorum is preferred. If someone has a legitimate beef, then by all means, chime in. If it's not legitimate (lacking basis in fact), however then it's just noise.

    Modern education? So long as it sticks to reading, writing, arithmetic, it's good. When it delves into political philosophy, it's seriously eroding America. Our Constitution? Good! Political Correctness? Bad. Heck, most Americans don't even know their history. How can we expect them to vote for the better President if they haven't a clue as to what constitutes a bad leader?
    Last edited by mugaliens; 02-04-2013 at 08:58 AM.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

  4. #4
    Moderator grapes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politically correct

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    Actually, I was referring to a BAUT moderator who was staunchly PC, including in public forum. Thus, the only "impugning" going on exists solely in your false allegations.
    What allegations?

    I was just pointing out that it is a perjorative, same as does your dictionary.

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    Default Re: Politically correct

    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    What allegations?

    I was just pointing out that it is a perjorative, same as does your dictionary.
    perjorative; adjective 1. is a word or grammatical form that connotes negativity having a disparaging, derogatory, or belittling effect or force.

    Any dispute can be defined that way. I say you are wrong. That's negative and disparages whatever you said. as being wrong.

    The meaning of politicly correct is white lie. Agree to a wrong because it's polite to.

    You're wrong, ignorant, evasive, unprincipled and lacking integrity. It's not the words that the trickster wants to supress it's the ideas the words express. Even without the words the trickster can lobby the rulers that negative ideas expressed by other words are pejorative, rude or impolite.

    At best this kind of PC standard creates hoops a disputer must jump through. At worst it shuts down any intelligent conversation and yields the field to the bores.
    Last edited by astrotech; 02-04-2013 at 01:57 PM.
    Lies have the stench of death and defeat.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Politically correct

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotech View Post
    I was just pointing out that it is a perjorative, same as does your dictionary.
    perjorative; adjective 1. is a word or grammatical form that connotes negativity having a disparaging, derogatory, or belittling effect or force.

    Any dispute can be defined that way. I say you are wrong. That's negative and disparages whatever you said. as being wrong.

    The meaning of politicly correct is white lie.
    I'm not wrong about that, it is a pejorative, even mugs seems to agree with that.

    I mean, after I fix my misspellings.

  7. #7
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politically correct

    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    What allegations?
    Your allegations I was using it as a pejorative. If you'll notice, I've mentioned several times that in it's common vernacular it is a pejorative. My pointing that out doesn't mean I'm using it that way.

    I was just pointing out that it is a perjorative, same as does your dictionary.
    I believe it's worse than a mere pejorative.

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotech View Post
    At best this kind of PC standard creates hoops a disputer must jump through. At worst it shuts down any intelligent conversation and yields the field to the bores.
    Agreed, especially when abused by mods and admins to push an agenda.
    Last edited by mugaliens; 02-05-2013 at 12:50 AM.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

  8. #8
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politically correct

    One of the oldest expressions in the military is "silence is consent."

    Hmm...
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

  9. #9
    Moderator grapes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Politically correct

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    I believe it's worse than a mere pejorative.
    But you still think it is a pejorative, right? (I just re-checked your sig)

    Saying it's worse only makes my comment in the OP stronger.

    uh, thanks

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    Default Re: Politically correct

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    One of the oldest expressions in the military is "silence is consent."

    Hmm...
    Here's another oldie.

    "Trumpeting military exploits as a mantle of integrity is a threadbare and shabby garment."
    Lies have the stench of death and defeat.

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