Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Thread: Thread and Message Options

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    2,761

    Default Re: Thread and Message Options

    Ok, then as I originally suggested, the forum rules enforced by the moderator should be that if a thread starter publishes an ignore list in his signature, then those on that list should not be allowed to post in his threads. Such activity would constitute infractions, and would be dealt with by the moderator.

    That gives the thread starter control over his own threads, enforced by the rules of the forum and the actions of the moderator.
    _______________________________________
    "Flamenco Chuck" Keyser
    The Relativistic Unit Circle Updates 03/02/2017 12:07 PM PST
    Proof of Fermat's Last Theorem Updates 03/19/2017 8:23 PM PST
    Ignore List -The Peanut Gallery.

  2. #12
    Moderator grapes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NC USA
    Posts
    4,004

    Default Re: Thread and Message Options

    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    Ok, then as I originally suggested, the forum rules enforced by the moderator should be that if a thread starter publishes an ignore list in his signature, then those on that list should not be allowed to post in his threads. Such activity would constitute infractions, and would be dealt with by the moderator.

    That gives the thread starter control over his own threads, enforced by the rules of the forum and the actions of the moderator.
    If you want control over your own threads, you can start your own forum. It probably won't be a very popular forum, for obvious reasons.

    For the same reasons, it wouldn't work very well here either. A forum like this is not a vanity press, where the author controls the dialogue regardless of the worth of the author's ideas.

    As an alternative suggestion, I say you should get rid of the ignore list in your signature. You're not really ignoring them with that, you're insulting and baiting them.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    2,761

    Default Re: Thread and Message Options

    This isn't a vanity issue, it is an issue of who contributes constructively to a discussion. My ignore list is based much more on people who insult or misdirect substantive issues. It is only common courtesy to stay off lists where one is not wanted; certainly I will stay off threads where the owner wishes to ignore me.

    It is just common decency. I have substantive perspectives I want to discuss and theoretical concerns I want to share, and I will answer anyone that I think has a decent question (and sometimes even those on my ignore list, much against my better judgement. Anyone should have the right to start their own threads; but it should be up to the thread creator who gets a chance to contribute.

    Granted, it may have to devolve to the honor system, and if it gets bad, and more people want to trash my threads I'll leave, now that there are other alternative forums coming available. But so far, so good here, except for mmaciej and a couple of others (which I put on my list for nastiness, not content)....

    (And even when someone suggested I didn't know what I was talking about, I tried to remain positive definite .

    But hey, if you're in favor of indiscriminate trashing and no control over one's threads in the name of "free speech" no matter how stupid or irrelevant, what can I say? You're right, it is not my forum, and I do have my own website....
    Last edited by BuleriaChk; 01-03-2015 at 04:48 PM.
    _______________________________________
    "Flamenco Chuck" Keyser
    The Relativistic Unit Circle Updates 03/02/2017 12:07 PM PST
    Proof of Fermat's Last Theorem Updates 03/19/2017 8:23 PM PST
    Ignore List -The Peanut Gallery.

  4. #14
    Moderator grapes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NC USA
    Posts
    4,004

    Default Re: Thread and Message Options

    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    This isn't a vanity issue, it is an issue of who contributes constructively to a discussion.
    Right. And the thread starter is probably not the most unbiased one to be making those decisions.
    But hey, if you're in favor of indiscriminate trashing and no control over one's threads in the name of "free speech" no matter how stupid or irrelevant, what can I say? You're right, it is not my forum, and I do have my own website....
    I'm not in favor of indiscriminate trashing.

    I am in favor of free speech.

    In my experience, anyone who tries to restrict comment, is usually unable to defend their position. Most often because they are wrong.

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    2,761

    Default Re: Thread and Message Options

    The thread starter has a point he wants to make. And he should discuss it with those he deems relevant to the conversation. this is not a peer review (except in the minds of some of the wannabies), but even then, if a theory is wrong, at least the critique can be reasonably polite and on point. And if a responder is unwelcome on that thread, then he can start his own to make his point.

    I don't restrict criticisms of my argument provided the critics aren't assholes about it because of the fog of invective and having to respond to junk mail. I welcome discussion of physics issues. The people on my ignore list aren't there because of criticism, they are there because they have provided invective and statements like "you don't know what you are talking about" without providing any foundation for such a statement, which is equivalent to simple name-calling.

    Even when I criticize I try to provide a context for my criticism other than an idiot insult... Some may differ, but I don't suffer assholes, fools and trolls well at all. But if the question is an honest attempt to solve an issue, then I will try to help if I respond. And as long as it isn't my thread, everyone else is free to weigh in.

    In fact, it is easy to get taken off my ignore list. Simply a good faith pm to me that they would like to weigh in on the conversation within the above criteria, common courtesy being the driver....
    Last edited by BuleriaChk; 01-05-2015 at 10:53 AM.
    _______________________________________
    "Flamenco Chuck" Keyser
    The Relativistic Unit Circle Updates 03/02/2017 12:07 PM PST
    Proof of Fermat's Last Theorem Updates 03/19/2017 8:23 PM PST
    Ignore List -The Peanut Gallery.

  6. #16
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    1,333

    Default Re: Thread and Message Options

    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    Ok, then as I originally suggested, the forum rules enforced by the moderator should be that if a thread starter publishes an ignore list in his signature, then those on that list should not be allowed to post in his threads. Such activity would constitute infractions, and would be dealt with by the moderator.
    That's a rather heavy workload for a mod.

    Here's a workable approach:

    1. Have a rule prohibiting the derailing of threads.

    2. If someone is derailing your thread, report it using the report function.

    3. The mods investigate and take action.

    Just be aware that sometimes the correction action might be to warn someone who is over-reporting the behavior of others. This is why most forums have a rule against abuse of the reporting system.

    That gives the thread starter control over his own threads, enforced by the rules of the forum and the actions of the moderator.
    That gives mods a boatload of work! You're putting the monitoring load on them, instead of on yourself. Mods have no problem taking action, but it's to the members to monitor their threads and report rules violations.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

  7. #17
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    1,333

    Default Re: Thread and Message Options

    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    If you want control over your own threads, you can start your own forum.
    Alternatively, you can start your own WordPress blog and employ Discus solution (free) to monitor and control feedback. Unfortunately, others can't start their own threads, and with the millions of blogs out there, you're unlikely to attract others with this approach.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

  8. #18
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    1,333

    Default Re: Thread and Message Options

    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    In my experience, anyone who tries to restrict comment, is usually unable to defend their position. Most often because they are wrong.
    Depends on the nature of the comment. If it has nothing to do with the thread and is merely abusive, there's no need for a defense. Warn 'em once. If they persist, suspend them.

    If the comments are just plain wrong, well, that's the whole purpose of a discussion forum -- to generate discussion, lively though it may be. Look at the 0.9999.... discussion. Best one yet (ugh).

    Some comments, however, aren't overtly abusive, but nevertheless mess up the forum because they begin to read like someone reversed the motor on a vacuum cleaner.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    2,761

    Default Re: Thread and Message Options

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    That's a rather heavy workload for a mod.

    Here's a workable approach:

    1. Have a rule prohibiting the derailing of threads.

    2. If someone is derailing your thread, report it using the report function.

    3. The mods investigate and take action.

    Just be aware that sometimes the correction action might be to warn someone who is over-reporting the behavior of others. This is why most forums have a rule against abuse of the reporting system.



    That gives mods a boatload of work! You're putting the monitoring load on them, instead of on yourself. Mods have no problem taking action, but it's to the members to monitor their threads and report rules violations.
    I think that is what I suggested; Of COURSE, it should be up the thread starter to monitor his own threads and report infractions. It is the role of the moderator to set the general rule regarding thread ownership. But ANYONE should be allowed to determine the content of his own thread; over-reporting should not be an issue. The moderator should not have to judge the quality of posts, only that someone who violates the ignore list has committed an infraction, but that judgment is up to the person who owns the thread.

    All the moderator has to do is verify that the infraction occurred once reported (that is, that the infracting posts exist at all) ....
    Last edited by BuleriaChk; 01-07-2015 at 10:57 PM.
    _______________________________________
    "Flamenco Chuck" Keyser
    The Relativistic Unit Circle Updates 03/02/2017 12:07 PM PST
    Proof of Fermat's Last Theorem Updates 03/19/2017 8:23 PM PST
    Ignore List -The Peanut Gallery.

  10. #20
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    1,333

    Default Re: Thread and Message Options

    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    I think that is what I suggested; Of COURSE, it should be up the thread starter to monitor his own threads and report infractions.
    If they so choose.

    It is the role of the moderator to set the general rule regarding thread ownership.
    The owner of the forum owns the thread. This topic is thoroughly covered under copyright law. Unless expressly stated otherwise, or established by prior, legitimate copyright claim or registration, the owner of a website is the publisher.

    Authors or creators of work who upload their content to third-party websites are essentially granting the owner of that website unlimited reproduction license.

    Here's a prime example: "Bards on the bus to Boston bussed bar tables behind the backstop."

    I owned this right up until the point where I clicked on "Submit Reply." By sheer virtue of the fact that I just shared this on Tom's website, for which he pays and I don't, Tom owns it. Not I.

    But ANYONE should be allowed to determine the content of his own thread; over-reporting should not be an issue.
    Nope. The moment you create a thread, it's no longer yours. It's Tom's (or whoever owns the website on which you created it). It does not matter that you "feel" otherwise. The only thing that matters is the law. Under U.S. Copyright Law (and most other major countries, including New Zealand), it's Tom's, not yours. You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't change the law.

    The moderator should not have to judge the quality of posts, only that someone who violates the ignore list has committed an infraction, but that judgment is up to the person who owns the thread.
    You're right, which is why some mods do nothing, regardless of how much the author/creator protests. The author/creator doesn't own the thread. The forum owner owns the thread, including all content. The only exception is content that's previously been protected under copyright. If a user posted a properly-cited sentence or two from The Firm, discussing it in this academic environment, that's allowed under copyright law's "fair use" clause, but John Grisham retains ownership. If a user copied a page or two, the forum owner is legally obligated to remove it.

    Now, having said all of that, most forum mods and admins will work with a user and respect them as the author/creator of the material. If they later wanted to take their notes from a message forum and write a book, the forum owner would probably not object, provided the name of the forum and all references to it were kept out of the book.

    All the moderator has to do is verify that the infraction occurred once reported (that is, that the infracting posts exist at all) ....
    Who does the moderator work for, Chuck? Is it you? Is it the members of the forum? Or is it the owner of the forum?

    Although a moderator may have the best interests of the community at heart, ultimately, the only reason an admin enlists the help of a moderator is to help the admin. The moderator works for the administrator/owner, not the forum members. Mods aren't waiters at some restaurant, bending over backwards to please the customer. They're more like bouncers at a bar, enjoying the atmosphere until someone steps out of line, at which point they caution them. If the troublemaker persists, they're tossed.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •