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Thread: Can Iran produce its own nuclear fuel?

  1. #11
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can Iran produce its own nuclear fuel?

    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    It's only a mater of time.. to the awful moment when a Nuc or dirty bomb is launched at or on a western target..
    That is a entirely unpleasant view, but I feel true. I do not see us being able to stop the eventually inevitable fact that a weapon of this type is in their control ability..arsenal. Might they just buy one or build it.. Do you think we can stop that ?
    Really? Then, if you're assured of their intentions, why wouldn't you strike first?

    If I knew my neighbor was pointing a shotgun at me every time I exited my door, I'd have no recourse here in the United States of America but to continue. If I, on my own property, however, had any indication he might actually pull the trigger, such as his pointing the muzzle out the door day after day, I'd be totally justified in blowing him away.

    Grow a brain, people - we don't tolerate individuals on the fringe of life who threaten our own lives with either ridiculous or stupid ideologies.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

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  2. #12
    Senior Member astromark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can Iran produce its own nuclear fuel?

    ~ I have been internalizing this as written by 'mugaleins' and can not agree.. I find your view dangerous.
    Points of conflict of view are apparent; Your neighbor may feel a threat and thus wishes to show ability to defend..
    and that you have expressed no tolerance of defense permitted.. The expression ' Blow him away is a extremely heavy handed term.. and to your last statement;
    "Grow a brain, people - we don't tolerate individuals on the fringe of life who threaten our own lives with either ridiculous or stupid ideologies." you said...
    ~ but you do. The USA seems to have great hordes of nut bar crazy zealots willing to arm and shoot before discussions
    of neutrality have a chance.. with your attitude piece has no chance.. Don't you think a written invitation to a diner or BBQ and discussions of mutual interests might lead to a future.. even a friendship.. this 'Blow em away'., sort of BS must stop.
    Are the terms trust, share, support so foreign to you. Find some common ground or you will find some blood spilled might be your own.. It is not weakness to back away from hostility but a opportunity to negotiate a piece and mutual advantage.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can Iran produce its own nuclear fuel?

    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    ~ I have been internalizing this as written by 'mugaleins' and can not agree.. I find your view dangerous.
    Astromark, the real world is "dangerous." Most people are trustworthy, but not everyone. People are at far greater risk of a fire in the home than they are of a home invasion, but home invasions still happen, as do violent crimes against one's person.

    Even in well-established, civilized nations, political takeovers by zealots are a routine threat, and have been acted on dozens of times in the last fifty years alone. Consider the mass genocide well underway by ISIS against Christians and Jews. A few decades earlier, Hitler nearly succeeded in becoming ruler of Europe. As the principle power of the world at the time, Europe had sufficient resources to rule the world.

    When it comes to interacting with others, weakness invites being taken advantage of. As Heinlein once said, "Never count on another man's better nature. He may not have one." On the other hand, mutual strength invites mutual respect. Until Obama took the helm, we had twenty years of acceptable relations with Russia.

    Points of conflict of view are apparent; Your neighbor may feel a threat and thus wishes to show ability to defend.
    To date, no neighbor of mine has ever considered me a threat. Friend, helper, "good neighbor," someone will to help them work on a home or car project, or be there in times of grief or to take them to the hospital and feed their dogs while they're gone. All that, yes. Threat, no.

    [quote]...and that you have expressed no tolerance of defense permitted. The expression ' Blow him away is a extremely heavy handed term.{/quote]

    The law, astromark, allows people to open carry. Those who open carry aren't a threat.

    The law forbids brandishing, which is defined as "holding a firearm in one's hand in a manner considered by a reasonable person to be threatening."

    When it comes to self defense, we also have a castle law. Thus, were any conflict to occur, where it occurred would be of supreme importance.

    Lawfully:

    1. If someone enters my home without my authorization and I reasonably believe they intend me harm, I am authorized to use deadly force.

    2. If someone enters my property, but not my home, I have no duty to retreat, but the rules change to that an encounter on neutral ground. I must be in reasonable fear of life, property, or limb in order to use deadly force.

    3. On neutral ground, see above.

    By "reasonable fear,"

    Those of us here in the U.S. who carry firearms understand these basic rules rather well. It is extremely rare to find anyone who routinely carries a firearm who "goes rogue," breaking the law through either ignorance, arrogance, or both. Many of us are former military, commensurate with the sense of duty, discipline, loyalty, honor, and integrity inherent in nearly all members of our voluntary armed forces.

    Given all of the above, if anyone pointed a firearm in my direction without my having done anything to warrant such an action, such as step foot on their own property, they would be breaking the law and presenting a reasonable and immediate threat against life, limb, or property.

    The law allows me to use deadly force to defend myself.

    Now, in your country, perhaps you have people pointing weapons at each other all the time. I sincerely doubt it, but I'm trying to make a point... Here in the U.S., that doesn't happen, because the response of doing so against a lawfully-armed citizen is fairly immediate.

    That said, we don't go "blowing each other away," either, at least not outside gang activity, which accounts for the overwhelming vast majority of homicides here in the U.S., but which to a great extent doesn't affect your average U.S. citizen.

    Meanwhile, crimes are stopped by armed citizens at a rate approximately 20 times the homicide rate from all causes, and that's less than half our motor vehicle accident rate.

    and to your last statement; "Grow a brain, people - we don't tolerate individuals on the fringe of life who threaten our own lives with either ridiculous or stupid ideologies."
    We don't. But we don't go around blowing them away, either.

    you said... ~ but you do. The USA seems to have great hordes of nut bar crazy zealots willing to arm and shoot before discussions...
    When someone is both breaking the law by brandishing a firearm pointed in your direction, and you have done nothing to warrant that irrational and unlawful response, it is a reasonable assumption they mean you harm, and it is a logical and lawful conclusion to defend yourself.

    The 650,000 crimes stopped to 1/20th the number of homicides of all times (including justifiable) clearly indicate discretion is the rule.

    Getting back to a previous comment, however, armed, law-abiding citizens don't go around pointing firearms at one another. In fact, in 51 years of life in this country, no one has ever pointed a firearm at me for any reason whatsoever, save one: I was responding to an alert klaxon while on active duty, and I arrived at a security checkpoint before the Airman guarding that checkpoint received the alert on his radio. Safety off, M-16A2 pointed squarely at my chest, and two seconds later he received the alert and raised his weapon (ricochets off the concrete tarmac could damage the nuclear weapons).

    Nor, for that matter, have I ever had any need to brandish a firearm. I came very close, once, but the threat evaporated the moment they realized I was carrying a firearm.

    ...of neutrality have a chance.. with your attitude piece has no chance..
    My "attitude" is the same as that which has preserved peace throughout much of the world since World War II. MAD, "Mutually Assured Destruction" seems mad. However, throughout the entire course of human culture, natural selection has favored tribes with reasonably similar levels of weapons and skill who worked together instead of opposing one another. Indeed, at one point, human population dropped to approximately 50,000 people, and that wasn't all that long ago along our human timeline.

    Perhaps the human race learned something.

    Similarly, the only leaders who haven't been satisfied with that in the last 500 years haven't exactly been firing on all eight cylinders. Hitler, Pol Pot, Lenin. Hell, just look for the string of millions of dead bodies. "Their way or the highway."

    That's not MAD. That's insane.

    MAD is the same technique used by many American Indian tribes to either settle minor border disputes or establish bragging rights. They'd thump one another with the butts of their spears. "Counting coup."

    We often do the same symbolically through various economic reports, but the psychological effects on the leaders and people's of the countries involved are very real. Leaders are expected, even welcome at all levels, provided they're benevolent. When they're not, people resist, dig in their heels, and even overthrow. You might say it's human nature 101, and may very well be the very pattern of our long-term survival.

    Thus, I have no qualms about open carrying my firearm around town. I have serious issues with anyone who might use such an overt representation of force to gain an unfair advantage over others.

    My points of view on this issue are quite normal in my country and many others. And amazingly, it works. Crime rates among the 45 of our 50 United States where open carry is legal are significantly lower than they are in the 5 holdouts. The highest crime rates in the country remain in the only two locations in the U.S. to attempt to maintain total firearms bans: Chicago and Washington D.C. Now that both of their gun-ban efforts have been ruled un-Constitutional on several fronts, crime rates in those areas have dropped.

    Don't you think a written invitation to a diner or BBQ and discussions of mutual interests might lead to a future.. even a friendship..
    You're referencing... ?

    ...this 'Blow em away'., sort of BS must stop.
    It appears to me you've misunderstood the very shortened euphemism. I hope the amplification I've provided above has helped clarify some of the parameters. I also understand growing up in different cultures can lead to seriously different understandings about the way human beings "traditionally" behave. Most Americans, for example, have a difficult time believing ISIS is capable of beheading men, women, and children for no other reason than those they behead are Christians, even though we all lived through the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center towers. Yet ISIS forces themselves are posting videos of their atrocities left and right to the Internet.

    Having worked throughout many countries in the Middle East, I can well believe it. Many Americans can't.

    Are the terms trust, share, support so foreign to you.
    Are you kidding me? I grew up with them! They were reinforced through friendships and team sports in elementary, middle, and high schools, as well as a number of school activities in college. They gained a huge boost in the military, when our lives became dependent on one another's actions due to the nature of military duty and risks. Many times my own life was saved by the actions of others, and my actions saved the lives of many others on a number of occasions. I have an annoyingly heavy chest full of medals to prove it, but that's beside the point.

    The point, astromark, is that in large part because of our cultural differences, you don't trust me. You find comments from my own culture which I find merely "off-hand" as objectionable, threatening, or even alarming. Throughout my travels, I've encountered many similar, culturally-based idioms against which, if I didn't find a translation matrix, would have confounded me long ago.

    The point is to take them all in stride, know how to separate the chaff from the wheat, and know how to translate the comments of other cultures into your own. That also applies to translating comments between generations.

    Find some common ground or you will find some blood spilled might be your own.. It is not weakness to back away from hostility but a opportunity to negotiate a piece and mutual advantage.
    If I determine I have time, I'll always do so. If the situation dictates otherwise, I'll take the appropriate action.

    I'm not exactly a neophyte in these matters, astromark. In fact, I'm better travelled and more well-trained than more than 98% of the people on our planet. That's not bragging. Just is. My record of avoiding conflict (except perhaps online!) speaks for itself. At heart, I'm a peacemaker, hence the two hours I put into this reply. I balance that against another truth I hold dear, and that's to never be a welcome mat for others seeking to take advantage. Not going to happen.

    My experience over the decades both formed my position and confirmed it to be the best for all concerned.

    - Mugs
    astromark likes this.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

  4. #14
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Armed Store Keeps Prevent Damage/Looting in Ferguson Riots

    So long as we're talking about the subject of personal armament, here's a report on one of the stores which were not looted in the recent riots in Ferguson, near St. Louis.

    NOT Looted.jpg

    Pictured: Mike Gutierrez (left) and Adam Weinstein (third from left) brought guns to guard their store during the riots in Ferguson last night.

    "It turns out that when violent looters come face to face with people prepared to kill to defend their property, the looters tend to choose a ‘safer’ target."

    Imagine that...
    Last edited by mugaliens; 08-13-2014 at 07:08 PM.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

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    Default Re: Armed Store Keeps Prevent Damage/Looting in Ferguson Riots

    Another long winded right wing cowardly strike first ditribe from mugaliens.

    My neighbor points a gun at me and I blow him away. My neighbor HAS a gun I don't just blow him away.

    Iran has a dangerous ideology. So do a hundred people who live within a thousand yards of me. But I don't go out at night cutting throats.

    Pea brains like mugaliens and raghead extreamists like the dangerous and simple idealogies and platitudes because they, and the lies they are composed of, are easy. That's why those small town hicks like small town isolation and ignorance.

    They fear "city slickers"

    City slickers are exposed to so many people we learn the truth. Hicks live in the isolation of their bubble so they don't have the oblgations of knowledge, to have courage to repress fear of dangers.

    Just like raghead cultures they even teach their idealogical bullshit in public schools and kids get bad grades on their permenant records for wrong answers on tests. On a raghead school test a question is "Who are the most evil people on earth?" Answer "the jews". "Are jews human?" Answer "no". On a right wing test "How old is the Earth?" answer "5000 years". Or "Did man and dinosaurs exist on Earth at the same time?" answer "Yes".

    They invent new lies and platitudes all the time. Point out their inconsistancies, hypocrisies and lies and you are "provoking and goading them". "Alcohol is bad" but you point out that Jesus drank it at the last supper and made it for a party when the wine ran out. "Thou shalt not kill". But those right wingers kill all the time. "You're using the bible against me" is the platitude they use to justify an explosion of anger, closed mindedness and ignorance.

    They've got the right wing media feeding them their lies and platitudes and social media to spread them.

    These people are dangerous, and getting more so all the time. They're henchmen of the rich and worse, most of them don't even know it. There's something wrong with them and they know it. So they look to and become the henchmen of the rich who promise to protect "the folks" against the "intelligent elete". Just like Hitler did. Hitler pandered to the fears of the folks. Claimed to be "one of them". Had Porche design a car for "the folks", the Volkswagon. "City slickers are decadent, jews, homosexuals." "Country folks are big strong blue eyed blond aryans". "the right folks. The right way to live."

    Nationalism, militarism, racism, anti intellectualism. Oh yes, they are weaving the NAZI pattern again.
    Last edited by astrotech; 08-20-2014 at 08:18 AM.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member john_gabriel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can Iran produce its own nuclear fuel?

    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    ~ I have been internalizing this as written by 'mugaleins' and can not agree.. I find your view dangerous.
    Points of conflict of view are apparent; Your neighbor may feel a threat and thus wishes to show ability to defend..
    and that you have expressed no tolerance of defense permitted.. The expression ' Blow him away is a extremely heavy handed term.. and to your last statement;
    "Grow a brain, people - we don't tolerate individuals on the fringe of life who threaten our own lives with either ridiculous or stupid ideologies." you said...
    ~ but you do. The USA seems to have great hordes of nut bar crazy zealots willing to arm and shoot before discussions
    of neutrality have a chance.. with your attitude piece has no chance.. Don't you think a written invitation to a diner or BBQ and discussions of mutual interests might lead to a future.. even a friendship.. this 'Blow em away'., sort of BS must stop.
    Are the terms trust, share, support so foreign to you. Find some common ground or you will find some blood spilled might be your own.. It is not weakness to back away from hostility but a opportunity to negotiate a piece and mutual advantage.
    As a naturalised American I got to know Americans better than most foreigners. Your assessment is correct. Americans believe in American Exceptionalism. A very detrimental and false belief that they are different (better than others) from the rest of the world.

    Mugaliens is what I would call the American Dutchman (a conservative bigot). In South Africa where I grew up, Dutchman is used pejoratively with respect to the white Afrikaaners. Most of these individuals are misinformed, uneducated and blinded by prejudice. Others who fit into this category are Astrotech and Neverfly.

    Of course Iran has been producing nuclear fuel and has the technology to improve on its enrichment methods. Although I hate any religion, I can't blame them for wanting to be in control of nuclear weapons. One can never negotiate from a position of weakness.

    Don't stray too far. The US dealt with Iran treacherously until the revolution happened. Whatever the hypocritical US does, is always in its own interests. They have done nothing to the evil vipers who run Saudi Arabia, and yet it's that country which produced most of the 911 terrorists.

    The sun has started setting for the USA. It won't be long before they are a 3rd class country. Greed, corruption and elitism are destroying a once great country. Even as I write, the US does not look after its own citizens. The homeless and jobless number in the millions. Poverty has increased and looks set to continue increasing. More than anything, greed and Ayn Randism has all but destroyed the US.

    Finally, the US has made some very dangerous enemies. Despite its nuclear submarines that prowl the oceans, I see it destroyed along with all its English speaking partners (UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand).

    All an enemy country needs to do is disable the power grids of the USA and it will be as if a warrior has a clean blow to an enemy whose shield is gone. How? Detonate neutron bombs at a sufficient altitude over the US and then rain down atomic bombs as you please. The nuclear submarines can be located and neutralised long before they wake up to the fact that the USA has gone. As easy as that.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armed Store Keeps Prevent Damage/Looting in Ferguson Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotech View Post
    My neighbor points a gun at me and I blow him away. My neighbor HAS a gun I don't just blow him away.

    Iran has a dangerous ideology. So do a hundred people who live within a thousand yards of me. But I don't go out at night cutting throats.

    Pea brains like mugaliens...
    The only pea brain here, astrotech, is you, for thinking I thought anything different than your two statements above. Do you always go around jumping to errant conclusions, or is that merely endemic to all liberals?
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

  8. #18
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can Iran produce its own nuclear fuel?

    Quote Originally Posted by john_gabriel View Post
    I see (America)destroyed along with all its English speaking partners (UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand).
    Ah, the anti-colonialist reveals his true colors...

    All an enemy country needs to do is disable the power grids of the USA and it will be as if a warrior has a clean blow to an enemy whose shield is gone. How? Detonate neutron bombs at a sufficient altitude over the US and then rain down atomic bombs as you please. The nuclear submarines can be located and neutralised long before they wake up to the fact that the USA has gone. As easy as that.
    Dream on. Better yet, go ahead and try it. See how far you get.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

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    Default Re: Armed Store Keeps Prevent Damage/Looting in Ferguson Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    The only pea brain here, astrotech, is you, for thinking I thought anything different than your two statements above. Do you always go around jumping to errant conclusions, or is that merely endemic to all liberals?
    You said Iran having nukes is the same as your neighboor pointing a gun at you and fingering the trigger.

    You are a liar.
    Lies have the stench of death and defeat.

  10. #20
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armed Store Keeps Prevent Damage/Looting in Ferguson Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotech View Post
    You said Iran having nukes is the same as your neighboor pointing a gun at you and fingering the trigger.

    You are a liar.
    Given the fact Iran has repeatedly avowed to use nuclear weapons, should they ever achieve them,on the United States of America that fact and your statement makes you either a liar (false accusations) or an imbecile (total failure with respect to basic facts and logic).

    Which is it, astrotech: Are you the real liar, here, or merely an imbecile?
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

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