Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 35

Thread: Ghosts, Machines, and the Higgs Boson

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    2,766

    Default Ghosts, Machines, and the Higgs Boson

    I had written: Higgs Boson .... So now what?, Post #6

    "When they discover the Higgs boson, they will finally be able to calculate the radius of the LHC from first principles. Then they'll need to get funding for a much bigger Lorentz apparatus to continue.... and a bigger icebox to cool it.....

    This looks like a job for Shapiro.... "

    Neverfly had responded:

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Whenever you're ready to settle down to clearly communicating, feel free to elaborate on your ideas.
    Humbly, since clarity has been requested, and I am not that familiar with Tex (actually, I try to avoid Texans whenever possible, except for those from Austin), I will discuss the issue as best I can, but I refer the reader to the Relativity .pdf documents on my website as a foundation:

    Theory of Relativity

    also see: Hard light
    posts #13 and #14


    Nevertheless, even those documents may be unclear to some, so in the interest of creating an even clearer foundation, I refer the beginning reader to the document I am currently working on for this discussion:

    Edit: This link has been removed, since I have left this discussion for obvious reasons and have unsubscribed from this thread, since as of post #29, it is obvious that it was going nowhere, and Neverfly is now on my ignore list. If someone else wants to weigh in, pm me....

    I will then proceed to elaborate on these ideas, eventually resulting in the requested analysis, provided that the discussion proceeds rationally and without rancor....

    (Snarks will be immediately put on my "ignore" list, if they are not there already. In fact, if I declare any member a snark, I encourage all other contributors to do the same, and ignore their submissions to this thread.)



    (However, if no one is interested in this subject, I, too will let it drop and continue working on my Nobel prize thesis alone in the darkness ....)
    Last edited by BuleriaChk; 01-10-2014 at 02:31 AM.
    _______________________________________
    "Flamenco Chuck" Keyser
    The Relativistic Unit Circle 03/28/2017 07:40 AM PST
    Proof of Fermat's Last Theorem Updates 03/19/2017 8:23 PM PST
    Ignore List -The Peanut Gallery.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    2,766

    Default Re: Ghosts, Machines, and the Higgs Boson

    One of the interesting (to me) problems in physics is if one can admit continuous functions to the Lagrangian, and still maintain the constancy of c. In STR, the relation M0=CT (for a single physical system) implies that if C is the mass creation rate, then T provides the cutoff (in mass creation time) at which M0 is invariant.

    The same is true of VT'; if V is independent of C for all values of V, then V is orthogonal to C; V can be considered a different mass creation rate for a different time T'. However, if a final result is defined as a relation between an initial state and a final state, then the "time dilation" equation obtains, which is actually a relation between mass creation times in terms of mass creation rates:

    where =

    Note that a coordinate system is not referred to explicitly.

    This means that CT is actually the LaGrangian (L = Ekinetic - Epotential
    and can be interpreted as either a potential or a kinetic energy, but not both (since the energy defined this way is also independent of the coordinate system).

    This means that the equation actually describes a change in state between two mass states M0 and M', where M' = M0*

    Further analysis results in the Relativistic Energy equation, which is also discrete for discrete mass creation times, so that the relation between E' and E0 is (E')2=(PC)2 + (E0)2

    One can then set Planck's constant H = (PC)2 which is again discrete, so that Edif = E' - E0 = HF where F = 1 (since the coordinate system is still not defined as a "frequency" in space-time)

    So this is the fundamental problem Einstein had with quantum mechanics, since the latter description of a change in energy is discrete and quantized, and continuous system (a Riemannian Manifold) does not apply if energy and momentum are conserved. GTR requires a continuous system which changes the "speed" of light continuously as a space-only (contra-variant) transformation that changes xc = ctc in flat coordinate space-time. Such a transformation destroys gauge invariance (conservation of energy), since in such a metric, tv has exhausted all possible conserved mass transformations if an affine connection exists between space-time and energy-momentum domains.

    If an affine connection does not exist, then the coordinate domain is that of "Ghosts", and the energy domain is that of "Machines".
    _______________________________________
    "Flamenco Chuck" Keyser
    The Relativistic Unit Circle 03/28/2017 07:40 AM PST
    Proof of Fermat's Last Theorem Updates 03/19/2017 8:23 PM PST
    Ignore List -The Peanut Gallery.

  3. #3
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Utopia Planetia, Mars
    Posts
    1,784

    Default Re: Ghosts, Machines, and the Higgs Boson

    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    Neverfly had responded
    I lived in Austin for a very long time...
    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    Nevertheless, even those documents may be unclear to some, so in the interest of creating an even clearer foundation, I refer the beginning reader to the document I am currently working on for this discussion:

    http://www.flamencochuck.com/files/M... Maschines.pdf
    Post number two is simply the link pasted above...
    It is unclear. You show a very few tidbits and primarily, you confuse whatever it is you were trying to say by labeling "Something" as "ghosts" and "something else" as "machines."

    Now, I'm going to assume that most readers on here are already familiar with the concept of "The ghost in the machine" in programming. And I'm pretty sure you are familiar with it so;
    What does random bits of code that can influence an eventual outcome have to do with anything you have in those links- or post number two?
    You're going to have to go to much greater depths of clarification to be given consideration, I think...
    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    (Snarks will be immediately put on my "ignore" list, if they are not there already. In fact, if I declare any member a snark, I encourage all other contributors to do the same, and ignore their submissions to this thread.)
    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    I, too will let it drop and continue working on my Nobel prize thesis alone in the darkness ....)
    You say the quoted material above and then make a snarky comment of your own.
    Now granted, I'm pretty ignorant about Relativity. But even so, I've seen nothing on either of the two links you've posted that shows anything Nobel Prize worthy.
    Granted, the second link says "To be continued" but... I may just be an overly-cautious person or something... I'd save the bit about winning the Nobel Prize until after that was complete.
    I mean, I'm just sayin.'

    And if that makes me a snark- I'm ok with that.

    Took a bit to get back to you - was busy fighting with John Gabriel like a rabid dog.
    Last edited by Neverfly; 01-09-2014 at 11:25 AM.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    2,766

    Default Re: Ghosts, Machines, and the Higgs Boson

    (Do you think I am serious about the Nobel comment? Are you insane?)

    I see nothing in my understanding of current physical models that are inconsistent with my investigations, so far, except for the space-time interpretation of general relativity. And there, Robert Johnson's approach (Nobel Prize in Physics) is one that I agree with, if I understand him correctly.

    Of course, it requires much more explanation. The "Ghosts in the Machine" is not from computing, it is from philosophy (solipsism vs. realism), and is at the heart of the confusion about the Theory of Relativity, which is a subject I have addressed on this forum and in my .pdf files.

    I use .pdf files, because I want them accessible generally, so I get input from this forum and outside as well.

    So - bottom line - it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to be clear about the foundations of STR, since it forms the foundations of relativistic quantum mechanics, and in particular, quantum field theory. The end result is to describe "covariant" physical systems (constant speed of light). The next step will be to show how contra-variant relationships might apply, which is where the Higgs Boson equation comes in.....

    So - to begin the discussion, it is essential to know where the "time dilation" equation comes from. If you have any questions, I am here. However, try to find an answer either in the .pdf's or in threads on this forum, and maybe start a second question thread, since I don't want to spend time here discussing this very fundamental concept.

    There is no point in going any further until we agree on that issue....

    (I will be updating the "Ghost in the Machine" document (.pdf) as the Higgs issue becomes clearer, and I discover ways of explaining the progression of ideas that lead to the Higgs equation)....
    Last edited by BuleriaChk; 01-09-2014 at 11:50 AM.
    _______________________________________
    "Flamenco Chuck" Keyser
    The Relativistic Unit Circle 03/28/2017 07:40 AM PST
    Proof of Fermat's Last Theorem Updates 03/19/2017 8:23 PM PST
    Ignore List -The Peanut Gallery.

  5. #5
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Utopia Planetia, Mars
    Posts
    1,784

    Default Re: Ghosts, Machines, and the Higgs Boson

    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    (Do you think I am serious about the Nobel comment? Are you insane?)
    Ummm...


    Yeah?



    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    I see nothing in my understanding of current physical models that are inconsistent with my investigations, so far, except for the space-time interpretation of general relativity.
    Elucidate.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    Of course, it requires much more explanation. The "Ghosts in the Machine" is not from computing, it is from philosophy (solipsism vs. realism), and is at the heart of the confusion about the Theory of Relativity, which is a subject I have addressed on this forum and in my .pdf files.
    This is interesting and I may have to look into it- but it certainly does not address what the heck you're talking about...
    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    since I don't want to spend time here discussing this very fundamental concept.
    I don't have time to run around and do your homework for you. No, seriously. Now, granted, I asked you about a comment you had made. You suggested it be left alone. That's fine.
    But then you chose to start this thread and make a presentation. So Make The Presentation. I'm not going to puzzle out what it is that you want me to ask you about.
    Present Your Case. What is your Hypothesis? What evidence supports it? What tests might be performed to help confirm it- and can those results make a working Theory?
    That.
    Is.
    How.
    Science.
    Is.
    Done.
    Period.

    You disagree with Relativity- That's fine. But that alone is not enough to ask me to do your work for you. You asked if I am insane... Well, I'm not that insane.
    How fundamental it is and whether you wish to be bothered to show your work is not my problem. You made a comment about IF the Higgs has been discovered.
    So far, the evidence weighing in says it has been.
    Now, I don't work at CERN so, hey, I won't claim it's a certain thing... but the evidence is beyond "compelling."
    Making your claim demonstrates that you think that observers have been misled by faulty evidence. Or perhaps something else. But you claiming it is not good enough. I can make a claim too:
    "Unicorns sneeze chocolate cheez-whiz."
    See, that's easy. Backing it up and supporting it with evidence... That's your job. If you want to promote the claim, you need to back it up with evidence to show WHY you promote the claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    There is no point in going any further until we agree on that issue....
    You don't get to make the rules to suit how you want to play. You most certainly do not tell me that I'm required to agree with you in order for you to present the case that you demand I agree with.
    No.
    You either adhere to the Scientific Method or you're not discussing Science, you're just clowning around.

    And, again, you can say I am making Snarky comments and put me on ignore. Before long, you'll have everyone on ignore except those that don't follow the Scientific Method.
    You'd be far better off adjusting your own attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    (I will be updating the "Ghost in the Machine" document (.pdf) as the Higgs issue becomes clearer, and I discover ways of explaining the progression of ideas that lead to the Higgs equation)....
    As you discover...

    So in short, you made an assertion which I question with a large question mark over my head...
    Your assertion was based on an an idea that is currently Unsupported and You do not have a full understanding of...
    And you must await further data.

    Well, that's agreeable. This thread should probably just sit quiet until the further data is available- to you- and you've completed your hypothesis. It appears you've tried to present it too soon.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    2,766

    Default Re: Ghosts, Machines, and the Higgs Boson

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Ummm...


    Yeah?

    Elucidate.
    .................................

    If you don't understand STR as the foundation of quantum field theory, there is no point in going on.
    If you have a question about STR, I may or may not respond. If I decide to continue, it will be in the .pdf document....

    I'm outta here for now.
    _______________________________________
    "Flamenco Chuck" Keyser
    The Relativistic Unit Circle 03/28/2017 07:40 AM PST
    Proof of Fermat's Last Theorem Updates 03/19/2017 8:23 PM PST
    Ignore List -The Peanut Gallery.

  7. #7
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Utopia Planetia, Mars
    Posts
    1,784

    Default Re: Ghosts, Machines, and the Higgs Boson

    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    there is no point in going on.
    Agreed. You have no interest in presenting your hypothesis or are not yet prepared to do so.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    2,766

    Default Re: Ghosts, Machines, and the Higgs Boson

    No, it is actually just you (there may be others). No-one else has replied....
    But you can keep track of my work at the .pdf.....

    If and when you get clear about STR, let me know..... (work I have already done, and work you have yet to do....)

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Agreed. You have no interest in presenting your hypothesis or are not yet prepared to do so.
    _______________________________________
    "Flamenco Chuck" Keyser
    The Relativistic Unit Circle 03/28/2017 07:40 AM PST
    Proof of Fermat's Last Theorem Updates 03/19/2017 8:23 PM PST
    Ignore List -The Peanut Gallery.

  9. #9
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Utopia Planetia, Mars
    Posts
    1,784

    Default Re: Ghosts, Machines, and the Higgs Boson

    Quote Originally Posted by BuleriaChk View Post
    No, it is actually just you (there may be others).
    Explain.
    You set out with incomplete material and then set forth a demand that I agree with you on something before you would explain further. That is not on me- that is on You.

    I'm sure you are familiar with what the Scientific Method is and why it is so important in these fields of study to remove personal desire and bias from influencing conclusions.
    The onus is on you to follow the Method. That is on You, not on me.

    The only OTHER possible meaning of "It's just you" that I can reach is that you meant that it's just me that was asking about what you had to say.
    But again, the same response applies. You made a statement that I questioned. You are rejecting the evidence in favor of another idea.
    And that looks a lot like bias and it appears moreso when you then say that your own work is Incomplete.
    I'm only obligated to promote the Scientific Method and given a moment of question - when an assertion is made that is contrary to the evidence - I Will Do So. You could have simply said, "I'm not sure, I do have an idea but it's a work in progress."
    I'd have been off your back at that moment, really.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    2,766

    Default Re: Ghosts, Machines, and the Higgs Boson

    The statement "I disagree with Relativity" is absurd, since I have derived all its equations from Coulomb and Ampere's laws (and the "speed of light" agreeing with Maxwell's equations), the Lorentz transform (and Einstein's interpretation of it). And the results are well confirmed by QFT, where there are questions about Einstein's (original interpretation) of STR.

    (It is significant that Einstein won the Nobel prize for the photo-electric effect, and not for relativity. You might ask yourself "Why?").

    Of course my work is incomplete. Hey, so is Hawking's.... and Susskind's, Kip Thorne's, Wheeler's, and hey, Dirac, Pauli, etc..) I'm trying to both teach and learn; I have come to some insights which I'm willing to discuss, all of them using well-recognized formulae from physics, with some quibbles in interpretation (about which many others have had reservations, including Einstein and Peter Bergmann, not to mention many others currently working in the field).

    So I've taken the time to write .pdf's so anyone can track my progress, and I've taken a LOT of time on this forum to try to express them (I may get better, now that I know how Tex works) ... If we can't discuss STR, how are we to discuss the Higgs equation (which involves co- and contra- variance along with color charges and the Wilson loop)? Or is that not Science?

    The argument about different interpretations of relativity is directly related to the controversy involving infinite series in another thread in this form (continuous functions vs. quantized functions)... and is much, much deeper, especially when one invokes tensor analysis .....
    Last edited by BuleriaChk; 01-09-2014 at 02:19 PM.
    _______________________________________
    "Flamenco Chuck" Keyser
    The Relativistic Unit Circle 03/28/2017 07:40 AM PST
    Proof of Fermat's Last Theorem Updates 03/19/2017 8:23 PM PST
    Ignore List -The Peanut Gallery.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •