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Thread: Well WTF...

  1. #1
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
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    Default Well WTF...

    Here are links to what I THOUGHT was a good idea.
    My son is struggling heavily in school. He is unmotivated, ignores instructions, gets in trouble and doesn't do the work.
    One of the things all of his teachers say is that when it comes to scientific topics, he gets animated. He engages in discussion. But when it comes to writing down the work, he shuts down.
    I discussed an idea with some of them:
    To get him involved on an internet forum where he would have the engaging discussion, but would be forced to practice his linguistic skills.
    According to his I.E.P. he is at a forth grade level in English. He is 17 and in 10th grade. He NEEDS the practice.
    At home, I have printed out worksheets and practice forms, but I thought I might try the forum idea...
    Here:
    Adding a student to your site : Introductions
    Hi i'm Trilobite : Introductions
    As you can see... it did not go very well. The moderator decided to be a complete assclown about it.
    What do YOU lot think...

    Should I try it here?

    I'll gather whatever input any of you give for a while BEFORE having him register as I did there. Because that did not end well.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Well WTF...

    You know from your own experience what some of the moderators can be like on these forums, power tripping egotistic assholes. Since there is apparently no moderators active here then you won't face this adversity. But this site though mostly entertaining in part, may not be totally suitable for what you want to achieve with your son. There are a few members on here that would definitely be a good influence and I'm sure would be happy to assist you where possible. But there are some that seem to just enjoy engaging in what appears to be trolling, bickering and rude insulting behaviour. Though this is unfortunately real life and possibly good life experience, it may not be something you would like your son exposed to at this moment in time.
    Hope this helps.
    Regards David

  3. #3
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well WTF...

    Oh, I am sure he's been plenty exposed to that behavior- a mirror would do.
    See my sig line.
    Actually, it might do him some good. You see, a conversation that is too controlled and polite is not interesting to a teenager.
    I have not looked in on the place in a long time... I don't know what the behavior is like here are how active the board is.
    Last edited by Neverfly; 04-16-2016 at 04:17 PM.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

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    Default Re: Well WTF...

    That's fine then
    Activity seems to have diminished somewhat, as it appears there is only a hand full of members who regularly post here. I don't participate much these days as most active threads tend to go on a merry go round. It would be nice to see some new members join in and try and get this place up and running. It has potential to be a good board, but may require some moderation to sort out the trolls and over unruly behavior. Though that said the moderation would need to be moderate! to keep it different from other science forums.
    Give it a go, see how it goes

  5. #5
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well WTF...

    Quote Originally Posted by David M W View Post
    It has potential to be a good board, but may require some moderation to sort out the trolls and over unruly behavior. Though that said the moderation would need to be moderate! to keep it different from other science forums
    That's easy.
    The problem with moderators is that they sit too long in their posts. Forum moderators are not bad people or anything. They just begin to get too comfortable with "Power" and that they are never held accountable.
    They begin to think they are never wrong. Most mods don't start out that way.

    My proposed solution is this: A series of the active members moderate the board in shifts. Since everyone takes a turn at being a mod, it tends to spread the power out. It means members can't power trip, they will lose that power after a week or two and the guy they are picking on will have that power in the next weeks. One mod can't permaban anyone.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

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    Default Re: Well WTF...

    Not a bad idea

    I agree that any one mod should not be able to permanently ban an active member, only perhaps spam bots or sock puppets.

    I think you should stick around a bit and see what you think about the current state of this science board. It may be worth suggesting to Tom about your proposal, if he feels its what the forum needs to improve participating member numbers maybe something could be put into plan.

  7. #7
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well WTF...

    Quote Originally Posted by David M W View Post
    Not a bad idea

    I agree that any one mod should not be able to permanently ban an active member, only perhaps spam bots or sock puppets.

    I think you should stick around a bit and see what you think about the current state of this science board. It may be worth suggesting to Tom about your proposal, if he feels its what the forum needs to improve participating member numbers maybe something could be put into plan.
    If any forum admin would ever consider it, Tom is the most likely. The rest are too hell bent on maintaining the balance of Power.
    I do not bear any ill will against the Mods over at BAUT. Many of them, I recall, were fine people. Some of them, I considered friends as far as that can go on a net forum. I had a great deal of respect for some of them.
    But it is not personal; it is not about the person. Simply put, ANY human being that is left in a position of authority for too great a length of time is in danger of falling into the trap of starting to think that they can reason through any situation and come out correct. That they are permitted to get away with the activities they condemn in others.
    BAUT seemed, at that time, to be iron fisted. I still believe it is a bit too restrictive. I do believe they suffer from that trap... but they are one of the better ones. There is some self awareness, some discussion among them that helps alleviate the problem to a degree but... the main cause remains. The mods stay in power for Too Long.
    Having experienced some of the other forums, like SciForums which is very corrupt or others, it is worth noting that BAUT is still a step up from them.
    Sometimes you can be so polite and controlled that it is no longer honest.
    Sometimes, you are so restricted, you cannot properly formulate your point.

    So, that being said, Tom appears to have been influenced to start this forum as a protestation of that treatment. He appears to understand the necessity of limiting Moderator power much the same way as the Police and the Military do in rotating their authority heads.
    It makes sense to make each and every active member accountable for the moderation, to balance that responsibility among the active participants and to create checks and balances much like we see in other systems of authority but we do not see practiced on discussion forums which need it quite a bit.
    To work, the forum would need quite a few active members and several allotted a Mod Duty at a time since some may not be fully available for the task when their rotation comes up. If they miss their slot in the rotation by being absent, they get bumped to the next. If they really want to avoid being a moderator at any time, they can request to be removed from the rotation at any time.
    Some may make good mods, some may make poor mods but it would be balanced out in the end. When you KNOW you will be held accountable for your actions as moderator, when you KNOW that position is not set but fleeting and only a community service you pay into the board as a duty for use of the board, I think it changes the mentality of the moderator from someone that can power trip to someone that is simply doing their part as a member of a group.
    Members are less likely to react to mods with fear and suspicion, it puts the membership on more equal footing.
    Last edited by Neverfly; 04-17-2016 at 04:55 PM.
    David M W likes this.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Well WTF...

    Yeah I agree with what you have said. I've also encountered these situations on the said forums.

    "Sometimes you can be so polite and controlled that it is no longer honest.
    Sometimes, you are so restricted, you cannot properly formulate your point"

    I believe this to be true, I've been guilty of both.

    The problem we have here is that because there is no moderation and members are completely free to behave how ever they like we seem to have ended up with just a hand full of active members, some of which their only intent is to troll and display insulting and abusive behavior. I personally don't let it bother me but the threads do end up just a shooting range.I would be happy to support your suggestion, for a trial run at least, and see if things do improve and new members are more encouraged to join in.

  9. #9
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well WTF...

    Quote Originally Posted by David M W View Post
    Yeah I agree with what you have said. I've also encountered these situations on the said forums.

    "Sometimes you can be so polite and controlled that it is no longer honest.
    Sometimes, you are so restricted, you cannot properly formulate your point"

    I believe this to be true, I've been guilty of both.

    The problem we have here is that because there is no moderation and members are completely free to behave how ever they like we seem to have ended up with just a hand full of active members, some of which their only intent is to troll and display insulting and abusive behavior. I personally don't let it bother me but the threads do end up just a shooting range.I would be happy to support your suggestion, for a trial run at least, and see if things do improve and new members are more encouraged to join in.
    It is a matter of two extremes.
    One extreme is the over moderation.
    The other is under-moderation.

    Tom was inspired to start this board, for which he personally covered all the costs and did the groundwork, after having experienced some aspects of the first extreme.
    It quickly became a haven for the misfits, the outcasts and the rebels in Science. Those of us that question authority, use our own minds. Those of us that believed in expression without trying to do so under someones boot.
    I raised this point on the other forum:
    Has a member ever felt like they wanted to speak out, but were afraid of pissing off the moderator or upsetting him?
    Has any member ever felt like the moderator must be right; why else would he be an authority, even when your observations suggested he was wrong?
    Or even ever felt like it was your fault for upsetting the moderator; that your failures to meet his standards were the problem? That you caused the moderator to be hard on you?
    These are common discussion themes in Battered Womens Shelters.
    Abusers often do not realize that they have become abusers. The abused often do not realize they have allowed themselves to become the abused.

    Now, this by no means that Moderators are wife beaters. It does not mean that Moderators are always abusers. Many are quite balanced and good at it. But it shows what a very fine line we tread and demonstrates how carefully we must step.

    Moderators must be moderated.

    I fear that Toms haven has become a laughing stock to the other extreme. That they take this extreme as justification for their over-moderation.
    It used to be that mods and members of the parent forum observed this site with interest... now... not so much.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Well WTF...

    Firstly your son better have a thick skin. You will not moderate this site by constantly claiming to protect your son. It is what it is and I hope it stays that way

    Second. This site has some unpleasant aspects because at the beginning several members and mods from baut came here to attack this site. They're still here. They shamelessly run the whole gamut of bad behavior. Missquotes, missrepresentation, lying, sock puppets etc. Moderation, as exemplified on nearly any other site, is not the solution. I don't think they should be allowed to be unopposed by lack of moderation. So am not going to withhold unpleasant reply in a vain thought that I will be thought of as better. If people can't see who starts shit that's their problem. Watch shit long enough and maybe you'll figure out what it is.

    Of course 99% of the world is too weak to operate without moderator assistance. Maybe if more people were strong enough to muddle through the mud without mod assistance we would become a better site.

    For better or worse, welcome to your son.
    Lies have the stench of death and defeat.

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