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Quote Originally Posted by john_gabriel
Get yourself a good pair of glasses. If the definition is and in the definition:

is the number (iff it exists and is known as the derivative), such that for all , there exists a , such that for all , with ,

if it is used, then it must be circular because it refers to itself (via ) without being fully defined.

How can you be such a knucklehead?

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The limit is not defined by epsilons and deltas. Epsilons and deltas are used to show that the limit exists provided we know what it is. You can't show crap without knowing the limit in advance and the limit is equal to the derivative. Perfect circular reasoning.

Epsilons and deltas are to used to show the limit exists - like this you retard.

Reread the debate between Kaesorg and me.