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Thread: FBI and BLM claim "desert tortise" reason 200 armed raiders against NV rancher

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    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default FBI and BLM claim "desert tortise" reason 200 armed raiders against NV rancher

    "Environmentalists are praising the government’s forceful actions, which are being taken to protect the “desert tortoise.”"

    Article from conservative source.

    Article from liberal source...

    Yeah... That's because the uber-liberal mainstream media doesn't cover stories which make Obama, Holder, and the rest of his menagerie look like the idiots and traitors they are.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

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    Default Re: FBI and BLM claim "desert tortise" reason 200 armed raiders against NV rancher

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    Article from liberal source...

    Yeah... That's because the uber-liberal mainstream media doesn't cover stories which make Obama, Holder, and the rest of his menagerie look like the idiots and traitors they are.
    But in the land of reality
    A "liberal" site says
    Cliven Bundy: right-wing extremist domestic terrorist lawbreaker

    Mugsie, When you go all right wingnut conservative it's a dead givaway that your info is unreliable.
    Last edited by astrotech; 04-11-2014 at 02:08 PM.
    Lies have the stench of death and defeat.

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    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI and BLM claim "desert tortise" reason 200 armed raiders against NV rancher

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotech View Post
    Mugsie, When you go all right wingnut conservative it's a dead givaway that your info is unreliable.
    Other sources include friends who went there, reported back daily, and took video. Furthermore, the same happened here in Colorado, without the BLM standoff. BLM LOST in court. Owes the rancher $10 Million in legal fees and penalties. Hasn't paid up. So who's breaking the law, again???

    That's neither right nor left. That's reality. Here's another point of reality: Our Constitution and its Amendments are neither right nor left, either. They're simply "the supreme Law of the Land" as stated in the Constitution itself. I have observed, however, that liberals are quick to break our law, while conservatives hold to it.
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    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

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    Default Re: FBI and BLM claim "desert tortise" reason 200 armed raiders against NV rancher

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    So who's breaking the law, again???
    Bundy.
    And conservative media stoked up the right wingnut domestic terrorist groups to respond so the government sent in troops. Soldiers, who for the most part identify as consevative, point their guns at women, children and news media. Soldiers did all the other constitutionaly offensive things that happened.
    But conservatives don't blame soldiers for the offenses they comit do they?

    Obviously ugly conflict staged by conservatives all around.

    Consevative state, conservative soldiers, conservative ranchers make an ugly scene.

    Blame Obama.

    Riiiight.
    Lies have the stench of death and defeat.

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    Default Re: FBI and BLM claim "desert tortise" reason 200 armed raiders against NV rancher

    Back in the first Bush administration the BLM moved to get ranchers in Nevada off the land. To pander to environmentalists the cover story then was to protect the desert tortoise. It was leaked as rummor that they really just wanted to expand nearby area 51 and Yucca Flats military bases. Most right wing ranchers in the area fell in line like good little republcans and complied. Liberals didn't buy that the republicans would expell so many of their voting base in Nevada just to protect a tortoise in an area which had already been subjected to the kind of environmental assault that area already had sustained from nucelar tests and polution from area 51. They bought the rummor that it was a conspiracy to expand the military bases.

    One rancher, Bundy, opposed being displaced and refused to move. The government took him to court and for the past 20 years the case wended its way through the courts.

    Bundy, taking advantage of popular leftist support, decided that since the government was suing him he wouldn't pay his land use fees either. Building up a bill in the millions. All his legal resorts exhausted finaly law enforcement moved to evict Bundy and his cows.

    That's when the right wing media got a hold of it and made it about Obama. Armed right wingnut militia responded and the military was sent in to enforce court orders. Instead of doing their job to protect the legal forces against possible armed resistance by looking for actual nut job armed resistors the right wing troops pointed guns at women, children and media so it would look bad knowing the right wing media was already blaming Obama for the whole thing would blame Obama for that too.
    Last edited by astrotech; 04-19-2014 at 04:37 PM.
    Lies have the stench of death and defeat.

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    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI and BLM claim "desert tortise" reason 200 armed raiders against NV rancher

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotech View Post
    Bundy.
    And conservative media stoked up the right wingnut domestic terrorist groups...
    Hardly. You do sound like the one on the right:

    The Guy on the Right.png


    You do, however, raise an interesting question: Would you consider me a member of some "right wingnut domestic terrorist group" simply because I carry a firearm?

    Obviously ugly conflict staged by conservatives all around.
    Obvious ugly conclusion resulting from some sort of libtard-related delusion, commensurate with your other delusions on this forum, most of which involve your persistent victim mentality a.k.a. your external locus of control.

    In case you're wondering, that's the part of your psyche which leads you sympathize with these mental midgets:



    Consevative state, conservative soldiers, conservative ranchers make an ugly scene.

    Blame Obama.

    Riiiight.
    Actually, I suspect this was the result of Reid's desire to route Cliven Bundy and claim his water rights for his own collaborative effort with the Chinese (solar power plant).

    Why anyone, including the Democrats, puts up with his anti-Constitutional power-mongering is unfathomable.

    Only one thing explains it:

    Dhimmicrat.jpg
    Last edited by mugaliens; 04-20-2014 at 03:48 AM.
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    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

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    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI and BLM claim "desert tortise" reason 200 armed raiders against NV rancher

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotech View Post
    ...decided that since the government was suing him he wouldn't pay his land use fees either. Building up a bill in the millions.
    Same thing happened here in Colorado. A federal judge ruled the BLM's claim of "millions in grazing fees" was fictitious. Ruled in favor of the rancher, to the tune of $10 Million. They ruled the actual value of the grazing fees over time was $67,000.

    The BLM refuses to pay the $10 Million awarded to the rancher. The BLM is therefore breaking the law.

    That's when the right wing media got a hold of it and made it about Obama.
    What alternate reality are from? It's always been about the due process of law. Bundy has appeals in process. The BLM never had any authority whatsoever to either confiscate his livelihood or evict him and his family.

    Yet again, the BLM broke the law, a pattern they've repeated many times.

    That's the only thing this has been about since the beginning. BLM vs Bundy has never been about Obama. It's only been about due process of law. Indeed:

    In his opinion of United States v. Estate of Hage, U.S. District Court Judge Robert C. Jones reveals that after late Nevada rancher E. Wayne Hage indicated on his 1993 grazing permit renewal that by signing the permit, he was not surrendering his family’s long-standing water and forage rights on the land, the BLM not only rejected the permit but also conspired for decades to both deny his family’s property rights and to destroy their cattle business.

    “Based upon E. Wayne Hage’s declaration that he refused to waive his rights — a declaration that did not purport to change the substance of the grazing permit renewal for which he was applying, and which had no plausible legal effect other than to superfluously assert non-waiver of rights — the Government denied him a renewal grazing permit based upon its frankly nonsensical position that such an assertion of rights meant that the application had not been properly completed,” Judge Jones wrote. “After the BLM denied his renewal grazing permit for this reason by letter, the Hages indicated that they would take the issue to court, and they sued the Government in the CFC [Court of Federal Claims.]”

    And at that point, Jones explained, the BLM refused to consider any further applications from Hage.

    “The entire chain of events is the result of the Government’s arbitrary denial of E. Wayne Hage’s renewal permit for 1993–2003, and the effects of this due process violation are continuing,” he stated.
    Judge Jones continued:

    In 2007, unsatisfied with the outcome thus far in the CFC, the Government brought the present civil trespass action against Hage and the Estate. The Government did not bring criminal misdemeanor trespass claims, perhaps because it believed it could not satisfy the burden of proof in a criminal trespass action, as a previous criminal action against E. Wayne Hage had been reversed by the Court of Appeals. During the course of the present trial, the Government has: (1)invited others, including Mr. Gary Snow, to apply for grazing permits on allotments where the Hages previously had permits, indicating that Mr. Snow could use water sources on such land in which Hage had water rights, or at least knowing that he would use such sources; (2) applied with the Nevada State Engineer for its own stock watering rights in waters on the land despite that fact that the Government owns no cattle nearby and has never intended to obtain any, but rather for the purpose of obtaining rights for third parties other than Hage in order to interfere with Hage’s rights; and (3) issued trespass notices and demands for payment against persons who had cattle pastured with Hage, despite having been notified by these persons and Hage himself that Hage was responsible for these cattle and even issuing such demands for payment to witnesses soon after they testified in this case.

    By filing for a public water reserve, the Government in this case sought specifically to transfer to others water rights belonging to the Hages. The Government also explicitly solicited and granted temporary grazing rights to parties who had no preferences under the TGA [Taylor Grazing Act of 1934], such as Mr. Snow, in areas where the Hages had preferences under the TGA.

    It is necessary to note that under the TGA, according to Red Canyon Sheep Co. v. Ickes (1938), a rancher whose cattle had previously grazed in the area based upon adjacent land, water rights on the land, etc., has a right to a grazing permit over others who apply for a permit to graze the area without having previously grazed there.

    So in this instance, Hage would have priority over Snow for a grazing permit, but the BLM willfully ignored this court ruling.

    And after the agency filed for a public water reserve, according to Judge Jones, the BLM “sent trespass notices to people who leased or sold cattle to the Hages, notwithstanding the Hages’ admitted and known control over that cattle, in order to pressure other parties not to do business with the Hages, and even to discourage or punish testimony in the present case.”

    “For this reason, the Court has held certain government officials in contempt and referred the matter to the U.S. Attorney’s Office,” he wrote. “In summary, government officials, and perhaps also Mr. Snow, entered into a literal, intentional conspiracy to deprive the Hages not only of their permits but also of their vested water rights.”

    “This behavior shocks the conscience of the Court and provides a sufficient basis for a finding of irreparable harm to support the injunction described at the end of this Order.”
    So in other words, the BLM willfully attempted to destroy the Hage family’s livelihood because Hage dared to assert his existing rights to the land which his family has held since the late 19th century.
    And unfortunately the BLM is attempting to do the exact same thing to Cliven Bundy.

    “Has Attorney General Eric Holder prosecuted any federal officials for criminal activity and violation of the Hage family’s constitutionally protected rights? No,” William F. Jasper, senior editor of The New American, wrote on the subject. “Has Sen. Harry Reid denounced this lawlessness and criminal activity by government officials and call upon President Obama and Attorney General Holder to protect the citizens of his state from the depredations of federal officials under their command? No.”

    “With attitudes such as those expressed above by Sen. Harry Reid, it is almost a certainty that the recently defused Bundy Ranch standoff will be replayed again — and in the not-too-distant future. And the outcome could be much less amicable for all concerned.”

    Armed right wingnut militia...
    Discussing this issue with you further is pointless, as you're not interested in the legal facts provided above. Like most libtards, your head-up-ass approach consists only of throwing feces like a monkey.

    Back on ignore.

    Our Founding Fathers.jpg

    There's only one thing this and many similar things have been about:

    Lincoln - Not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow those who pervert the Constitution.jpg
    Last edited by mugaliens; 04-20-2014 at 04:18 AM.
    David Whitmore likes this.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

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    Default Re: FBI and BLM claim "desert tortise" reason 200 armed raiders against NV rancher

    Once again Mugsalien and another lengthy nothing to do with it post.

    Next time maybe he'll do some research on the Bundy case.

    The guns? Why did those right wingnut militia people bring their guns into a desert? Hunting? Protection from all the cows? If it had been a occupy wall street or any other "leftist" demonstration armed anything like that there would have been a massacre. Even without the guns the cops still assault libral demonstrators. Coservatives justify that because of "unrulyness". That must be the "victimization" you are talking about. Or is it because liberals are too chickenshit to shoot back?

    Did they, or you, carry them legally? Permits? Concealed carry permits if they were concealed? In public places? Is that legal there? Were they carrying and drinking alcohol? Is that legal there? Or were they carrying in a threatening way and creating a powder keg?
    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    What alternate reality are from?

    BLM vs Bundy...
    Has nothing to do with United States v. Estate of Hage

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    ...has never been about Obama.
    Not blaming Obama? What alternate reality are you living in?

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    Article from liberal source...

    Yeah... That's because the uber-liberal mainstream media doesn't cover stories which make Obama, Holder, and the rest of his menagerie look like the idiots and traitors they are.
    Oh right, the one where you claim the media isn't covering it when they are and where you don't blame Obama when you do.

    The alternate reality of lies.

    If you had an intelligence to be insulted you would only watch Oreilly for your right wing media fix. The rest of your right wing media is insulting to the intelligence of anyone who has intelligence. Oreilly is only occasionaly insulting to my intelligence.

    Stick to the truth dude. It's easier for old timers disease victims like you to remember.
    Last edited by astrotech; 04-20-2014 at 04:09 PM.
    Lies have the stench of death and defeat.

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    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI and BLM claim "desert tortise" reason 200 armed raiders against NV rancher

    If you don't know why patriots from all over the U.S. stood by Bundy, while armed, then you haven't the slightest clue about what's important in either American or World history.

    Being liberal requires a special kind of stupid, one who is perfectly capable of expressing themselves with the written word, and understanding the facts at hand, but who are totally incapable of putting together the pieces of the puzzle. Out of frustration, they simply toss or attempt to discredit those facts which don't fit their world view.

    Liberals and Facts.jpg

    In the old days, we used to have a phrase for those who couldn't hack reality: Natural Selection. Back then, you couldn't bend the world to fit your reality, nor could you find isolated pockets of mutually-reinforcing madness like you can today. You either learned or you died. Even Democrats weren't immune, but the Democrats in Kennedy's era look nothing like they do today. Were he running today, I'd vote for Kennedy. It's not a race or gender issue, either, as I'd vote for Condoleeza Rice, too.

    Bottom line, there's so much stupid going on these days it's a wonder our country functions at all.
    David Whitmore likes this.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

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    Default Re: FBI and BLM claim "desert tortise" reason 200 armed raiders against NV rancher

    The right has become so much the party of stupid liars even the right wing media has to admit it.


    By the way mugsie,

    FACIST!!
    Last edited by astrotech; 04-20-2014 at 10:01 PM.
    Lies have the stench of death and defeat.

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