Thread: education and design

A real question from across the Pacific. I have often seen discussion of int design and God having any input on the formation of events of creation of this universe.. Which I do not tolerate as real.. Within the USA where is the line drawn in regard to education of the sciences and religion. Is the mainstream view of the big bang taught in schools across america or, Is a tolerance of religious concepts still taught ?
Is Carl Sagan's work part of the curriculum ? and why not if not ?

Attempts to bring religion into the public school curricula have been successful in some jurisdictions, but not most. Proponents couch their proposals in terms of being "open-minded" and encouraging "critical thinking." These people pretend that it is an open question whether or not the Earth is 6,000 years old or that Man was created from clay dirt by God. However, they don't dare ask that geography courses include the notion that the Earth has four corners.

What you get down to is that a few very ignorant or very cynical people want to impose profoundly false information on school children. For the most part, their attempts have failed. To the extent that they have succeeded, it is a tragedy beyond measure.

Yes, that is a great pity. I simply don't believe that it is "that" hard to understand the difference between faith in our creator, the philosophies which enable us to live in peace with each other and hold a code of law so as to survive with justice,.......... and
have a rational approach to genuine physics and the natural sciences . I mean... really, some of the rubbish pedaled by these creationist
simpletons is so beyond absurd that they are laughing stock , obvious to the most casual observer. And those same do a severe disservice to
the religious community .
" They have eyes , yet they do not see. They have ears and they do not hear. They have brains and can not think ."

Best regards,
Dan

Astromark here is a link in wikipedia about the separation of church and state if it helps.

Edit: You might want to follow the link to the Separation of church and state in America where you will find a number of court cases regarding this concept as applied to public and private schooling.

Please do not answer the obvious question... why did I not just go to WIKIPEDIA myself..

and that I asked the question here was to emphasize or highlight the subject better and that you have provided me with more than I would have dared asked...

I thank you... Pyraxus... I have already been reading some of the links from the wiki site... So my fear is mostly misplaced it would seem..

The education of our children is protected from the zealots of religious faiths.. whew !

Don't worry about "the obvious" my friend. I cannot tell you how many times I think to myself, "Now why didn't I just go there myself." But I think like to pose questions here just for the sense of community and interaction it provides. In this case I provided you with that link simply because I did not feel very confident on any answers I personally might have given, but I did know where such answers could be found, especially in reference to the court case links which I thought you might find most useful. Sure, we could all just study on our own, but then we would miss out on that sense of affinity which might be attained by these interactions.

So, I am happy I could help. :-)

Originally Posted by danscope

Yes, that is a great pity. I simply don't believe that it is "that" hard to understand the difference between faith in our creator, the philosophies which enable us to live in peace with each other and hold a code of law so as to survive with justice,.......... and
have a rational approach to genuine physics and the natural sciences . I mean... really, some of the rubbish pedaled by these creationist
simpletons is so beyond absurd that they are laughing stock , obvious to the most casual observer. And those same do a severe disservice to
the religious community.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Pyraxus

Astromark here is a link in wikipedia about the separation of church and state if it helps.

Edit: You might want to follow the link to the Separation of church and state in America where you will find a number of court cases regarding this concept as applied to public and private schooling.

Sadly, the concept of "Separation of Church and State" was promulgated by the courts, not by Thomas Jefferson, who, during his time as President, held church services in the Treasury Building due to a lack of other large buildings in which people could meet. Source: Library of Congress

His letter to the Danbury Baptists was meant to reassure them that the government would not stick its nose into church business. Nothing more. Sadly, the anti-religious have read so much more into it than Thomas Jefferson ever did by putting pen to paper.

Danbury Baptists' Letter to Jefferson

Jefferson's response

Rather than quoting the millions who've "interpreted" either letter to suit their own beliefs, read the letters and let's hear what you think, directly, about this issue.

Here's a broader view on how the "separation" came about:
Why U.S. is not a Christian Nation.

Jefferson may have been a deist but that doesn't qualify as Christian.

Originally Posted by Mr Mirth

Here's a broader view on how the "separation" came about:
Why U.S. is not a Christian Nation.

Jefferson may have been a deist but that doesn't qualify as Christian.

According to that article, a statute written by Jefferson, and included on his grave:

Revised by James Madison and passed by Virginia's legislature in January 1786, the bill stated: "No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened (sic) in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief ..."

That clearly includes crutch kicking!