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Thread: Scientists Debunk Anthropogenic Global Warming

  1. #21
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet more examples - PICTURE!

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    Nor did I claim you did. It's the overall impression of your takes on a variety of topics.
    I do not understand this statement at all. I do not see how an over-all impression of other topics could lead you to conclude that I have changed my tune on AGW.
    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    You're the one who mentioned the word "conspiracy," so I'll ask you directly: WHAT conspiracy?
    Well, so far, you've listed "Google" and the "EPA" as involved participants- as well as the Undefined "AGW Machine."
    Essentially, you have expressed that you feel the TWOOF™ about data in regards to climate change is subverted, suppressed or misrepresented by a very, very, very large group of people working in unison to further some kind of financial agenda.
    That's a conspiracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    Time - very liberal/leftist rag. Try The Atlantic or Forbes.
    Says you. Any evidence? And even if a lot of liberals work for Time, how does that support the assertion that the kind of drastic Climate Change we are observing is not induced by the massive carbon dioxide emissions we are also observing?

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    NASA - works for Obama, also liberal, if not Marxist, Communist/socialist
    LOL
    Wow... ok...
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
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  2. #22
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet more examples - PICTURE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I do not understand this statement at all. I do not see how an over-all impression of other topics could lead you to conclude that I have changed my tune on AGW.
    Not having previously known your stance on AGW, how I would ever conclude you had "changed your tune" on it? Your position on a wide variety of topics lead me to believe you were not the sort of person who would support AGW.

    Before we proceed, let's clarify some terms and my own position. Global warming (GW) has indeed been happening over the last fifty years, but in the last decade, it's hit a plateau, if not decreased slightly. Anthropogenic global warming (AGW) is the theory that GW is primarily the result of human activity. Studies confirm CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but studies also confirm H2O (water vapor, not condensate) is a greenhouse gas. In terms of their current concentrations in the atmosphere, water vapor is three times more powerful a greenhouse gas than CO2 (I may be misrecollecting the factor, but it's up there). The IPCC used to include water vapor in their list of greenhouse gases. Now they don't. Why?

    Well, so far, you've listed "Google" and the "EPA" as involved participants- as well as the Undefined "AGW Machine."
    So let's define it. Try those institutes and agencies that stand to profit from AGW perpetuation. If it's a government organization, they stand to profit from empire-building (more power and funding). If it's a scientific organization, they stand to profit from continued or increased funding.

    Put simply, both those holding the purse strings as well as those receiving the funding stand to gain by AGW perpetuation, just as they stand to lose by its debunking.

    Essentially, you have expressed that you feel the TWOOF™ about data in regards to climate change is subverted, suppressed or misrepresented by a very, very, very large group of people working in unison to further some kind of financial agenda.
    That's a conspiracy.
    It sure is. It's also extremely well known that people conspire all the time, from the first cliques in grade school throughout the rest of their lives. Some people rise above it. Some people are neck deep. Most people fall somewhere in the middle.

    It's also well known that throwing out the "conspiracy" label is on the same base level as tossing out labels such as "liberal, conservative, progressive, tea party, communist, American," etc. Not exactly an effective technique for debate. Sort of highlights the fact you have nothing else.

    Then again, I've done the same by pointing out the liberal nature of your own sources.

    Says you. Any evidence? And even if a lot of liberals work for Time, how does that support the assertion that the kind of drastic Climate Change we are observing is not induced by the massive carbon dioxide emissions we are also observing?
    If anything, this should raise questions as to why liberal rages gush on about AGW while conservative ones are skeptical, if not opposed. Why in the world would a field of scientific study be so polarized along political lines? History has shown us it's a safe bet that either one side is right and the other wrong (ignorance or stupidity) or one side has an ulterior motive and the other side is opposed. What leads me to believe it's the latter is that some very bright people are on both sides of the line that's been drawn, thus ruling out the ignorance and stupidity argument.

    Naturally, this brings us back to the question of the 21st Century: "Why?"
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

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  3. #23
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet more examples - PICTURE!

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  4. #24
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientists Debunk Anthropogenic Global Warming

    Huge ocean wave one of many inputs to climate IPCC has yet to consider. LINK.

    ""It's an important missing piece of the puzzle in climate modeling," said Thomas Peacock, a mechanical engineer at MIT who is studying internal waves. "Right now, global climate models are not able to capture these processes," Peacock said in a statement."
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

  5. #25
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientists Debunk Anthropogenic Global Warming

    From the article: "The number of Americans who believe global warming isn't happening has risen to 23 percent, up 7 percentage points since April 2013."

    Well, this is just stupid, as our climate changes all the time -- day to night, throughout the week, season to season, year to year, and from one epoch to another. Furthermore, science has proven that global warming is indeed happening.

    What they haven't proven is why. The AGW scientists' big claim is CO2, but given its continued rise in spite of a decade-long slump in temperature, there's a huge question mark stamped on that forehead. Meanwhile, sunspot activity remains highly correlated with GW, including the recent decade-long GW slump. Telative humidity (that's the visually clear, totally evaporated form of H2O in our atmosphere). Despite the fact that it's a more powerful (by end effect) greenhouse gas than them all, the IPCC has largely tossed that out the window, namely because there's almost nothing we can do about it. If they can't use it to control the behavior of other nations, they're not interested.

    Naturally, this raises the question of control. I can't help but wonder what kind of childhoods some of these cheeseheads had that leads them into occupations where they need to feel like "saving the world," especially if it means controlling the world, forcing everyone to do what they tell us to do, and hammering us when we don't.

    As a field of science, psychology has significantly more traction in identifying and describing that type of psyhotic behavior than the IPCC and others have had in digging up evidence that anything more than trace amounts of global warming is caused by man.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

  6. #26
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientists Debunk Anthropogenic Global Warming

    Even Batman gets it right. Robin? Not so much.

    Batman and Robin on Global Warming.jpg
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

  7. #27
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientists Debunk Anthropogenic Global Warming

    You sure have talked a lot in your thread and yet, you haven't shown any evidence that Scientists "Debunked" AGW.
    The most you've got is a load of political spin, Batman and Picard doing a facepalm.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  8. #28
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientists Debunk Anthropogenic Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    ...you haven't shown any evidence...
    You don't read very well. Evidence. That's Post 1, by the way. Excerpt from the linked article: "For climate science it means that the Hockey Team climatologists’ insistence that human-emitted CO2 is the only thing that could account for the recent warming trend is probably poppycock."

    Do I need to link to each of the other posts containing links to the arguments for you, or do you think you can handle reviewing those posts without my assistance?

    And now, here's another lovely graphic...

    CO2 vs Fires in 40000 BC.jpg

    But hey, let's get serious. I LIKE the Picard facepalm. It's a wonderful depiction of what our great-great grandchildren will be doing when they learn how STUPID this generation really was to throw all that money away on trying to reduce our carbon footprint when we should have been investing it in new nuclear, both modern fission plants (300+ years) as well as perfecting nuclear fusion, the ONLY viable long-term (5+ Billion Years) source of energy that'll carry us over the hump as we exhaust fossil fuels while being able to support the massive energy requirements of heating, cooling, industry, and transportation.

    Since petroleum is used almost exclusively for transportation, heating, and petrochemical, let's focus on those sources we use to generate electricity: List of all sources. Major Categories and their Percentage Contribution. Coal and Natural Gas make up 67% of our electricity, with Nuclear at a distant third at just 19%. Other than hydroelectric, which has been fully tapped for decades, none of the others do more than dot the chart, at less than 4% each.

    Along with Petroleum, Coal and Natural gas will be GONE before my son dies of old age. Where do you THINK we're going to get our energy when we run out of fossil fuels? Cow chips?

    By the way, the only reason nuclear has any carbon footprint at all is because we use fossil fuels to power the mining, processing, plant manufacture, and operations. Power all that with nuclear-generated electricity and the footprint drops to zero.

    Another thing people don't realize is that if we don't transition now, if we wait until after fossil fuels are exhausted, we will slide back into the wood age, and there's simply not enough energy in wood to bring us back over the hump into the nuclear age.
    Last edited by mugaliens; 01-17-2014 at 06:46 PM.
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

  9. #29
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientists Debunk Anthropogenic Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    You don't read very well. Evidence.
    You are correct. I missed that link.
    It reads a lot like a blog, however and I'm skeptical of his graphing techniques. I'll get back to this when I have time to actually research it and compare the data- which time is something I'm somewhat short of. With the work piles, I have enough time to browse and make quick comments but very little time to do actual Work for the Forum. May be a bit before I can comment on this link.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  10. #30
    Senior Member mugaliens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientists Debunk Anthropogenic Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    You are correct. I missed that link.
    No worries. I miss things, too, and I appreciate your honesty!

    It reads a lot like a blog, however and I'm skeptical of his graphing techniques. I'll get back to this when I have time to actually research it and compare the data- which time is something I'm somewhat short of. With the work piles, I have enough time to browse and make quick comments but very little time to do actual Work for the Forum. May be a bit before I can comment on this link.
    Again, no worries.

    In the meantime, here's a website which also reads like a blog (because it's a blog), but does a very good job of linking to many well-known climates resources, even official statements from the IPCC. This week's gem: Dr. Judith Curry, Chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology: "Attempts to modify the climate through reducing CO2 emissions may turn out to be futile. UN IPCC now making "a weaker case for anthropogenic global warming."
    My oath of office never expires. "God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson. "I have far too long suffered fools. No longer will I tolerate the insufferable. Enjoy the vacuum." - Mugs

    PS: I scrambled my password, so no, I will not be responding. Get a clue.

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