Thread: ripping the fabric of space\time

Originally Posted by roncj5

if a black hole which has a finite mass can create a huge well or dimple in space/time,then ,if it is possable, how much mass would be needed to rip space/time?

To Astromark,
Read the o.p

The qeustion asks "how much mass would be needed to rip spacetime"
So dissucions about black holes, worm holes and singularities are relevant to the o.p.

Then answer the question he asked.. I do not have the confidence in my knowledge to do it.. I do not know.

We often use the term 'Solar Masses' when talking of these things.. So how many solar masses to make a Black Hole ?

And would some lesser mass bend the surrounding enough to call it a well or dimple in space time.. ?

I see where this leeds me.. Could ANY mass be said to distort space time ? I think, 'maybe so....'

Back to his OP. What does rip mean... is it tear asunder nuclear bonding ? or a lesser degree.

It's a very open question.

I dont think any rip is possible. I think its like a real number, it just somehow* keeps going.

P.S. Georg Cantor - first quantum physicist without knowing it.

Originally Posted by astromark

Then answer the question he asked.. I do not have the confidence in my knowledge to do it.. I do not know.

We often use the term 'Solar Masses' when talking of these things.. So how many solar masses to make a Black Hole ?

And would some lesser mass bend the surrounding enough to call it a well or dimple in space time.. ?

I see where this leeds me.. Could ANY mass be said to distort space time ? I think, 'maybe so....'

Back to his OP. What does rip mean... is it tear asunder nuclear bonding ? or a lesser degree.

It's a very open question.

I did with this summary -

"Whether or not these objects actually rip the "fabric" of spacetime is open to speculation. Many scientists suggest that if the conditions are right a "wormhole" may be created which can short cut across distant space by tunnling a hole from one region of space to another, in a sense ripping through the fabric of space"

And also provided the o.p with associated links to wiki that offer explanations about objects which may be able to "rip" the fabric of space time. What's commonly known as "the big rip" caused by the ever expanding universe is a different matter all together. This theory suggests that if the universe was to keep on expanding as it appears to be doing then eventually after a very very long time even the building blocks of matter could be ripped apart.

Originally Posted by roncj5

if a black hole which has a finite mass can create a huge well or dimple in space/time,then ,if it is possable, how much mass would be needed to rip space/time?

More than is in the entire universe. However, if that were possible, then the black hole would not actually have more than is in the entire universe, but rather, it's mass would be added to all the other masses in the universe.

The only way to "rip" space-time is to have local conditions such that universal constants no longer hold. Even at that, it's a warp, not a rip.

Finally, the question of a rip - is it self-healing, or does it continue to expand? If the latter, and had it occurred even once in the universe's past, we would not exist.

I question whether current scientific knowledge is sufficient to permit an intelligent discussion of this question.

Originally Posted by Atomic-S

I question whether current scientific knowledge is sufficient to permit an intelligent discussion of this question.

Any "intelligent" disscusion would be speculation or opinion based on the best theoretical mainstream science we have at our disposal. No one knows if the question can be answered correctly, other than,

Currentley we have no physical evidence to prove that space/time can be ripped or not.

can space or spacetime be continuiously bent[ like a taurus or calubi yau type shape] or is there a breaking point? and could a tear or breach or rip have been the reason for our universes coming into existance? eg... a BH gains enough mass to "puncture" spacetime and spacetime and raw matter[fundamental particles] spill into the opening creating a new universe. or is this similar to the bubble universe theory? or is this just a fanciful yet impossible idea?

Originally Posted by roncj5

can space or spacetime be continuiously bent[ like a taurus or calubi yau type shape] or is there a breaking point? and could a tear or breach or rip have been the reason for our universes coming into existance? eg... a BH gains enough mass to "puncture" spacetime and spacetime and raw matter[fundamental particles] spill into the opening creating a new universe. or is this similar to the bubble universe theory? or is this just a fanciful yet impossible idea?

We don't know!
Maybe all what you said is possible. Mainstream science could offer you reasons using math and observations whether any of your above ideas are pluassible. Since we have yet to directly observe any BH's and what they actually do to spacetime maybe that is what happens.

Originally Posted by roncj5

can space or spacetime be continuiously bent[ like a taurus or calubi yau type shape] or is there a breaking point?

I don't see it so much s a breaking point as observation of the most powerful influence on space-time known to man: black holes. What we observe, both at a macroscopic level (observatories) as well as at the subatomic level (accelerators), is that our understanding of black holes holds true. Space-time is indeed warped near a black hole, but it's not broken, even as the degree of warping approaches limits involving c.

...and could a tear or breach or rip have been the reason for our universes coming into existance? eg... a BH gains enough mass to "puncture" spacetime and spacetime and raw matter[fundamental particles]

Highly unlikely that a BH would do it, as it's already warped space-time enough that light can't escape, and we know of BH's with as little as a few solar masses to those with trillions of solar masses - no rips yet.