Thread: How exactly does electromagnetism travel?

Forgive my ignorance, but I was hoping someone could shed some light (no pun intended) on this for me.

I have always seen light waves represented as a wave pattern on a two dimensional grid. But seeing how we live in a three spatial dimensional world I was wondering if perhaps in addition to travelling in this represented way if it could also travel in a spiral or helical pattern. Could anyone give me some insight into this one or provide some links? I would appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Pyraxus

Forgive my ignorance, but I was hoping someone could shed some light (no pun intended) on this for me.

I have always seen light waves represented as a wave pattern on a two dimensional grid. But seeing how we live in a three spatial dimensional world I was wondering if perhaps in addition to travelling in this represented way if it could also travel in a spiral or helical pattern. Could anyone give me some insight into this one or provide some links? I would appreciate it.

Sure; Shoot an electron at a Monopole

Whoa... I just got the strangest feeling of Deja Vu...

Consider the analogy of waves in a puddle of water as a 3 D representation.
There is nothing helical about it and light always moves in a straight line (even near a black hole).

I think I am a little dense here, I don't really get the meaning of the monopole/deja vu lines. I sort of get the last part, thanks by the way. So in thinking more on this I find myself wondering just what it is that makes the EM wave shape itself like a wave with a positive/negative pattern. Is it an inherent property of the EM wave itself? Is it more like it is weaving itself around/between different underlying patterns of subspace strata, picking up positive/negative cyclic properties? (Please forgive that off the top of my head description.) And what about when it is presumably in particle form, is it positively or negatively charged or some balance of the two? Is it it's own anti-particle or is there some shadow twin form we can't detect? If there is some 'other half' that we don't detect but only theorize then does it relate in some way to dark or anti-matter?

I hope these questions are not too naive or ridiculous. I am just wondering if someone could share with me some findings on this.

Originally Posted by Pyraxus

I think I am a little dense here, I don't really get the meaning of the monopole/deja vu lines.

I said deja vu simply because I had just posted at that time in another thread about monopoles...
And then in this thread, someone had been mentioning how light travels...

Ok well, if you fire an electron at a monopole, which is magnetically wrapped upon itself, the negatively charged electron will follow a helical path around the monopole.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Originally Posted by Pyraxus

.....in addition to travelling in this represented way if it could also travel in a spiral or helical pattern. Could anyone give me some insight into this one or provide some links? I would appreciate it.

Sure; Shoot an electron at a Monopole

Originally Posted by Pyraxus

So in thinking more on this I find myself wondering just what it is that makes the EM wave shape itself like a wave with a positive/negative pattern. Is it an inherent property of the EM wave itself? Is it more like it is weaving itself around/between different underlying patterns of subspace strata, picking up positive/negative cyclic properties? (Please forgive that off the top of my head description.) And what about when it is presumably in particle form, is it positively or negatively charged or some balance of the two? Is it it's own anti-particle or is there some shadow twin form we can't detect? If there is some 'other half' that we don't detect but only theorize then does it relate in some way to dark or anti-matter?

I hope these questions are not too naive or ridiculous. I am just wondering if someone could share with me some findings on this.

Ummm...
I'll throw a wiki out this time:
Electromagnetic radiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also- Look up Oscillation.

Thank you kind sir. It will take a while for me to process what I can, I'm sure. Trying to educate oneself outside of any institition is rather tricky as you must be careful of which sources to put any real stock in.

I am going to be mean, harsh, blunt and in Rare form, as usual...

No one really succeeds in education without guidance.

If you want an education, you must find an instructor. A good one, mind you, not PBS.

Now, PBS has had a pretty good reputation of not giving into the Discovery channel form of sensationalism.
Even so, instruction means understanding the foundations upon which to build knowledge. A person trying to self educate has no idea what they are learning- How the hell can they teach it?

That said...
One of the best teachers I ever knew had not clue one about the subject he taught. But this is because he KNEW he was clueless and he followed the book... uhhh... by the book. He sought out help, constantly. And never, not once, did he ever tell us Anything at all without checking his resources first.
He had something that a person self educating did not have- A source of Guidance.
We learned because we had the structure of the Book.
But after the year ended, he still did not understand the topic of that class. Still one of my favorite teachers, though He could do something that the book could not- Inspire.

Pyraxus, I like your posts. I like how you ask pointed questions or how you introduce a question that gets the topic going again.
Don't worry, give me a little time being here and I'm sure I'll see the truth of ya...

But if you're looking for an education here- You will Fail.

As miserably as I have.

It's not even easy to get an education INSIDE of an institution!
To get one outside of it?
That's not even trying out for Iron Chef by learning from a fry cook. That's trying out for Iron Chef without EVEN learning from a fry cook!

Here is what a good science forum can do for you:
-It can teach you that you are Capable of learning.
-It can teach you to be less ignorant.
-It can teach you social graces (Or if you learn from me, how to piss off people that haven't even met you yet!)
-It can teach you critical thinking and how to consider thinking scientifically but it canNOT teach you Science.

It can help teach you how to learn science. But if an education is what you want then there's only One Basic Road- Head to the nearest educational institution and Ask For Advice on how to get enrolled, eligibility and Payment for schooling.

...Or... stay here and maybe someday, after years of hard work and researching on your own- You can become almost as dumb as me.

Originally Posted by Pyraxus

So in thinking more on this I find myself wondering just what it is that makes the EM wave shape itself like a wave with a positive/negative pattern. Is it an inherent property of the EM wave itself?

Yes.

When you stretch a spring, and let it go, it will bounce back and forth. It'll return to its former length, but it doesn't stop there--because it has now gained momentum, and that carries it past its unstretched length. But by going past its unstretched length, it will going too far, and the process will repeat. The result is a wave. The same sort of balancing of two different effects will often produce waves--like ordinary waves on a pond, but instead of a stretched spring, you have the gravity of the earth. If you describe the processes mathematically, you find that they have a shared characteristic--their solution is a wave function.

That's what Maxwell did, he compiled all the mathematical relationships known about electricity and magnetism and noticed that their affect on each other would satisfy the wave equation--and he even noticed that the speed of the wave would be the same as the speed of light. Just as the stretching gets converted into momentum, and the momentum back into stretching, the electric part changes the magnetic part, and vice versa.

Is it more like it is weaving itself around/between different underlying patterns of subspace strata, picking up positive/negative cyclic properties? (Please forgive that off the top of my head description.) And what about when it is presumably in particle form, is it positively or negatively charged or some balance of the two?

It oscillates.

Unfortunately, the photon combines characteristics of both waves and particles, in a complicated and not completely understood way. All sorts of experiments have been done to lead our thinking of when it is appropriate to treat it as a wave, and when as a particle.

Is it it's own anti-particle or is there some shadow twin form we can't detect? If there is some 'other half' that we don't detect but only theorize then does it relate in some way to dark or anti-matter?

IIRC, the photon is its own anti-particle.

I hope these questions are not too naive or ridiculous. I am just wondering if someone could share with me some findings on this.

Nev's wiki link might be a good place to start.

Originally Posted by grapes

Nev's wiki link might be a good place to start.

Nev?


hEb is that you?
23.gif

Heh, yeah, I was induced to change my name on the old BAUT board (too hard to spell), and I arrived at grapes. Originally, GrapesOfWrath, but grapes.

Hmmm... Interesting.

Still Moddin' over there?

Somehow- that seems like a conflict of interest to me.

When I joined another forum, while still a member of BAUT, mind you- It had been created as a bit of an escape from BAUTS iron-fisted dominion.
Someone on BAUT didn't like that, so they went over to that forum and made some pretty fucked up (And Made Up ) claims about me. The owner there decided that he'd ban me on the claims alone, with no investigation whatsoever.
And when I called out the individual on BAUT- they banned too. Now, don't get me wrong, I really don't care about being banned.

But I do dislike having my name and my character tarnished by some fuckhead that doesn't know me yet felt the need to Lie in order to lash out against someone they couldn't seem to beat down with honest debate. Yes- that bothers me that is still hanging out there somewhere in cyberspace.