View Poll Results: Are letters the math of words?

Voters
2. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    1 50.00%
  • No

    1 50.00%
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: What came first, letters or math?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    126

    Default What came first, letters or math?

    Language requires words; words require an image not letters. Letters are images that can create words, are letters the math of words?
    Sometimes, the logical answer defies logic....Stupid accident.

    If my thoughts are math, how can I be wrong?

  2. #2
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Utopia Planetia, Mars
    Posts
    1,782

    Default Re: What came first, letters or math?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleftherios Karagiannis View Post
    Language requires words; words require an image not letters. Letters are images that can create words, are letters the math of words?
    No. Because language evolves in much the same way that life does. Often, the selection of usage or verbiage seems arbitrary. In similar fashion to the natural selection shown in mating, the traits of language passed on generation to generation are not always logical or even best.
    We say 'when the Sun rises.' Yet, a more accurate description would be 'when the side of the Earth that you occupy rotates into the rays of the Sun.'
    Mathematics, however, is a model of consistent patterns that are inherent to the structure of SpaceTime.
    Aesthetics or preference has no place in mathematics. The most aesthetically appealing model is doomed to the trashcan if it fails testing and observation. Mathematics is strict and rigorous. Language is fluid and very forgiving of error.
    Last edited by Neverfly; 04-17-2016 at 06:44 PM.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    126

    Default Re: What came first, letters or math?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    No. Because language evolves in much the same way that life does. Often, the selection of usage or verbiage seems arbitrary. In similar fashion to the natural selection shown in mating, the traits of language passed on generation to generation are not always logical or even best.
    We say 'when the Sun rises.' Yet, a more accurate description would be 'when the side of the Earth that you occupy rotates into the rays of the Sun.'
    Mathematics, however, is a model of consistent patterns that are inherent to the structure of SpaceTime.
    Aesthetics or preference has no place in mathematics. The most aesthetically appealing model is doomed to the trashcan if it fails testing and observation. Mathematics is strict and rigorous. Language is fluid and very forgiving of error.
    I tried to think of something different, I guess I failed.

    My only argument against what you wrote is 1+1 and 1-1. It’s all I got.
    Sometimes, the logical answer defies logic....Stupid accident.

    If my thoughts are math, how can I be wrong?

  4. #4
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Utopia Planetia, Mars
    Posts
    1,782

    Default Re: What came first, letters or math?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleftherios Karagiannis View Post
    I tried to think of something different, I guess I failed.

    My only argument against what you wrote is 1+1 and 1-1. It’s all I got.
    My brain is often rather strict and getting an abstract idea through to it is no easy task.
    You can always try again...
    Because the 1+1 and 1-1 didn't really... well... I have no idea what that has to do with words...
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    126

    Default Re: What came first, letters or math?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    My brain is often rather strict and getting an abstract idea through to it is no easy task.
    You can always try again...
    Because the 1+1 and 1-1 didn't really... well... I have no idea what that has to do with words...
    It is not your fault, you do not have very much to work with, and that only refers to me.

    Language is fluid and very forgiving of error.

    So is math, or is math never wrong, and science has always been right?

    Many science articles I have read recently state "it was totally unexpected", exactly how many time does unexpected have to happen before it becomes expected? Science is not there yet? I am, a long time ago.

    1+1 and 1-1, if I am right, the universal formula for everything, my little dirty rag theory, one minus one equals not possible or two. Apply relative, and do not ignore it.
    Sometimes, the logical answer defies logic....Stupid accident.

    If my thoughts are math, how can I be wrong?

  6. #6
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Utopia Planetia, Mars
    Posts
    1,782

    Default Re: What came first, letters or math?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleftherios Karagiannis View Post
    So is math, or is math never wrong, and science has always been right?
    Mathematics and Science are not the same thing. Mathematics is used in Scientific Study...
    Scientific theory or models can be wrong. The purpose of science is to "build a model" of reality in order to understand and explain reality. Sometimes, we get the model wrong.
    Mathematics is one Model Building Tool.
    Another tool a scientist may use is a Beaker. The beaker may not be wrong but the scientist sure could be wrong.
    Which leads to the next tool: The Scientific Method.
    The methodology of science is used to reduce our own human hopes, bias, wants, beliefs etc from influencing the outcome of study. We cannot prevent bias, but we can try to keep it to a minimum.
    The scientific model is expected to be constantly tested for inaccuracy or weakness.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    126

    Default Re: What came first, letters or math?

    +E+l+e+f+t+h+e+r+i+o+s+ +K+a+r+a+g+i+a+n+n+i+s. And I wonder why I have a problem with math.

    It is the only possibility to spell a word; it’s not subtraction, multiplication or division. To create a word or have it grow, letters must be added, math. The universal formula for everything, or UFFE (you-fee), is math, the first letter of each word, a number. I see math everywhere, or maybe I am just biased.

    Plus, this is a science website; I have to disagree, even if I don’t, so I did, therefore I do.

    It helps me learn better.
    Sometimes, the logical answer defies logic....Stupid accident.

    If my thoughts are math, how can I be wrong?

  8. #8
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Utopia Planetia, Mars
    Posts
    1,782

    Default Re: What came first, letters or math?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleftherios Karagiannis View Post
    +E+l+e+f+t+h+e+r+i+o+s+ +K+a+r+a+g+i+a+n+n+i+s.
    And what does this equal? Is it an accurate statement? Does adding those letters together equal you?
    Does it equal your name on paper or does it equal the complex system that gives your hormonal balances, chemical and electrical interactions to the very specific structure of your brain... or your mind?
    A simple arithmetic is not necessarily a mathematical description.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleftherios Karagiannis View Post
    The universal formula for everything, or UFFE (you-fee), is math, the first letter of each word, a number. I see math everywhere, or maybe I am just biased.

    Plus, this is a science website; I have to disagree, even if I don’t, so I did, therefore I do.

    It helps me learn better.
    I envy you.

    I am an idiot and for me, my struggles far greater than yours.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •