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Thread: anti-matter and space.

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    Default anti-matter and space.

    For every particle there is an anti-particle. So if a normal particle takes up space, an anti- particle would do what? Take up more space?

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    Default Re: anti-matter and space.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Hawkins View Post
    For every particle there is an anti-particle. So if a normal particle takes up space, an anti- particle would do what? Take up more space?
    I'm a little concerned with the wording:
    For every particle there is an anti-particle - implies there are equal numbers of each. This is not the case. You probably knew that but wanted to clarify it, anyway.
    For every particle, there can be a particle of Opposite Charge, which would be an anti- particle. Should they come into contact, they would annihilate which would nearly totally (But not totally) destroy both.
    If a particle takes up space, an anti-particle takes up the same amount of space. A particles anti-particle behaves and has properties that are essentially identical to its counterpart. The only real difference is the Charge.
    A Positron (anti-electron) for example, would pair with an anti-proton to make anti-hydrogen. The anti-hydrogen would be identical to normal hydrogen in every way. Would behave the same way...
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    Default Re: anti-matter and space.

    For every particle, there can be a particle of Opposite Charge,
    Are you saying that there may not be any missing anti-matter after all?

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    Default Re: anti-matter and space.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Hawkins View Post
    For every particle, there can be a particle of Opposite Charge,
    Are you saying that there may not be any missing anti-matter after all?
    No, there is no missing anti-matter. That would imply it developed at the Big Bang but is unaccounted for, now. Rather, it may have never developed at all.
    A person would logically think that, given the Lambda CDM model (Big Bang), equal amounts of each would develop. This would lead to a massive annihilation event.
    A person might then ask, why was anything left, at all? There would have to be a "Preference" of Matter over anti-matter allowing more matter to develop than anti-matter. This would leave that remaining anti-matter after the initial annihilation event. This later expanded with the rest of expanding Spacetime, cooled and eventually formed into the stars, galaxies and clusters we see today.
    On the preference:
    Experiments at Cern have been conducted and are continuing to be conducted to figure out why there would be any preference.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=CP-v...utf-8&oe=utf-8
    One of those hits: First observation of CP violation in the decays of B0s meson | CERN
    This one is in depth:http://www.nikhef.nl/pub/services/bi...esis_E_Bos.pdf
    CP Violation is Charged Parity Violation.
    Now, you may not be looking for In Depth Articles. To summarize Charged Parity Violation is interesting of itself, because in so doing it also suggests the accuracy of Relativistic Quantum Field Theories. Which would make Einstein pleased while rolling over in his grave at the same time.
    The very (VERY) short of it is that over time, since the early part of the 20th century, scientists were discovering particles of the Standard Model. These particles, Mesons, had the same mass as eachother but some decayed at different rates than others. Some decayed into three pions but others into only two pions. Those with the weakest interaction decayed into three whereas the stronger interaction delayed into two.
    This meant there was something different about them.
    It is difficult to keep this simple, when it becomes necessary to talk about the interactions of Gauge Fields in order to make it make sense but... I will try by giving an analogy:
    You probably already know the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
    What if, the position and momentum were both necessary to know in order to determine if a particle would be one charge (Matter) or the opposite charge (Anti-matter)?
    At that point, probability must win out- giving a result. Given 50/50 odds we are back to the opening sentence.
    But something in how the subatomic particles rub against eachother seems to shift the balance in favor of one over the other.
    As it stands, it's hypothetical - but Colliders, including the one at Cern are gathering more evidence every day that is, as the links above, shedding some light on the mystery.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

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    Default Re: anti-matter and space.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    At that point, probability must win out- giving a result. Given 50/50 odds we are back to the opening sentence.
    50/50 is not all there is to it.

    In a single coin toss, a single event, it is certain that only one 50/50 outcome will happen. But with 2 tosses in one event there are 3 possible outcomes 00, 01, 11. with 3 tosses in one event there are 000, 001, 011, 111. with 4 there are 0000, 0001, 0011, 0111, 1111. As we see there are more outcomes that are not 50/50 than are 50/50. The larger the number of tosses in an event the less likely the event will have a 50/50 set of tosses.

    The more tosses the closer the set will be to a 50/50 distribution but the less likely it will be exactly 50/50. And now we're back to your misunderstanding of convergence.
    Last edited by astrotech; 04-22-2016 at 12:04 PM.
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    Default Re: anti-matter and space.

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotech View Post
    50/50 is not all there is to it.

    In a single coin toss, a single event, it is certain that only one 50/50 outcome will happen. But with 2 tosses in one event there are 3 possible outcomes 00, 01, 11. with 3 tosses in one event there are 000, 001, 011, 111. with 4 there are 0000, 0001, 0011, 0111, 1111. As we see there are more outcomes that are not 50/50 than are 50/50. The larger the number of tosses in an event the less likely the event will have a 50/50 set of tosses.

    The more tosses the closer the set will be to a 50/50 distribution but the less likely it will be exactly 50/50. And now we're back to your misunderstanding of convergence.
    You make a few assumptions... One, that I was making a claim or statement. I was not, I was talking about an assumption made by the average person when they wonder about this topic. That they would think that the matter and anti-matter development in the early Universe should be evenly distributed.
    You ignore the use of the "Given the odds of 50/50..." You are correct that the odds are not 50/50. But for a simplified explanation to David Hawkins question, it is sufficient.
    You are quite correct in pointing out that in statistical probabilities, you have conditional statistics. Because there is that "preference" again and if you like, we can start a thread discussing what factors give a preference for a Quarter flipping in the air to land on one side or the other.
    This thread is about what "preference" was involved in matter being developed or anti-matter being developed.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

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    Default Re: anti-matter and space.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    You are quite correct in pointing out that in statistical probabilities, you have conditional statistics. Because there is that "preference" again and if you like, we can start a thread discussing what factors give a preference for a Quarter flipping in the air to land on one side or the other.
    It is not about preferance, like a coin might be unbalanced, unfair, etc. It is about pure mathematics.

    When scadzillions of particles are created, each with a 50/50 probability of being either an particle or anti particle, the math says that it's virtually infinitely unlikely that there will be an exact 50/50 distribution. That there wasn't a 50/50 distribution is merely the most likely outcome. Nothing more mysterious than that.
    Lies have the stench of death and defeat.

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    Default Re: anti-matter and space.

    "Preference" is just a word to show that one term is developed more than the other.
    We are not talking about coin flipping. We are talking about a very specific value of the production of matter against anti-matter and your statistical probability examples do not account for the outcome. The numbers, when crunched, are quite different.
    There are other factors involved as to why there is a "Preference" for matter over anti-matter in early stage development. What those factors are, experimenters at colliders like Cern are trying to determine.
    Because in science, "I made up a simplistic answer without looking at the data" is not how things get done.
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    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

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    Default Re: anti-matter and space.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    There are other factors involved as to why there is a "Preference" for matter over anti-matter in early stage development. What those factors are, experimenters at colliders like Cern are trying to determine.
    No. They're trying to find evidence for a cause for the imbalance other than what can be expected in the standard deviation. By causing in accelerators an out side of the median imbalance in matter antimatter particle pair formation. They haven't been able to do that.

    Just because I write briefly on a subject doesn't mean my understanding is brief. Writing briefly shows better understanding of the subject. Your understanding is deficit. And your integrity is for shit.

    You're like a little bird. Twittering away making pleasant meaningless noises and squawking when someone steps on you.
    Last edited by astrotech; 04-22-2016 at 07:14 PM.
    Lies have the stench of death and defeat.

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    Default Re: anti-matter and space.

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotech View Post
    No. They're trying to find evidence for a cause for the imbalance other than what can be expected in the standard deviation.
    This entire statement is false. I already addressed your misconception in the previous post.

    David Hawkins asked an honest question and should receive a proper answer, not wild speculations based on misconceptions.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    “Science needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

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