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Thread: The premisses of general relativity theory and BB

  1. #11
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    Default Re: The premisses of general relativity theory and BB

    Quote Originally Posted by Olli S View Post
    What are the premises of GR and BB? Are the cosmologists aware of them?
    The premises of General Relativity are:
    1. The speed of light in a vacuum is an invariant and is the same for all observers.
    2. Any law of nature must be the same for all observers, even though it┤s expression may differ. (Example=Law of Conservation of Energy)
    3. The inertial mass and gravitational maas are the same in all reference frames.

    The premises of the Big Bang are as follows:
    1. As evidence from spectra indicates, the universe is expanding.
    2. The universe had a definite beginning as the hydrogen to helium ratio indicates.
    3. The universe is bounded as the resolution ot Olbert┤s Paradox and the Cosmic Background Radiation indicates.

    Yes, cosmologists are aware of all of these.
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  2. #12
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    Default Re: The premisses of general relativity theory and BB

    Quote Originally Posted by kg4pae View Post
    The premises of General Relativity are:
    1. The speed of light in a vacuum is an invariant and is the same for all observers.
    2. Any law of nature must be the same for all observers, even though it┤s expression may differ. (Example=Law of Conservation of Energy)
    3. The inertial mass and gravitational maas are the same in all reference frames.

    The premises of the Big Bang are as follows:
    1. As evidence from spectra indicates, the universe is expanding.
    2. The universe had a definite beginning as the hydrogen to helium ratio indicates.
    3. The universe is bounded as the resolution ot Olbert┤s Paradox and the Cosmic Background Radiation indicates.

    Yes, cosmologists are aware of all of these.
    A few innocent (and, of course, na´ve comments:

    GTR:

    1. Depends on what one means by a vaccum (Outside in the parking lot? Inside a sealed container cooled to as much as we can cool it on earth?). If there is nothing there, then the Universe is a vacuum. The speed of light doesn't say anything about the idea the phton isn't there (is a geodesic a discontinuous function? Are there gaps in a geodesic?
    2. Depends on what one means by a second observer. God? Thee?
    3. That's only verifiable if you know all the reference frames.... (suppose there is something you're missing. Does god know about it? And/or can you fill it in with your imagination? (Wheeler's "bits", Susskind's Holographic Universe..

    (to leave the center of the light cone, you have to travel faster than light. Sir Arthur Eddington's comment about gravity waves - "Gravity waves travel at the speed of thought...

    Big Bang:

    1. Spectra is an energy measurement, not a space time velocity. So is the Minkowski metric, and the so-called "time dilation" equation.
    On the subjective level light travels instantaneously, and doesn't interact with matter (at least when you're sleeping)... Unless you get a sunburn or are trying to shoot down a fast burn booster... (Nevertheless, it is important to keep track of the neutrinos that are striking your body at any given instant..)

    2. Hydrogen as measured in our experience on the earth's surface. The situation in the center of Sagittarius may be quite different (, or, hey, inside a semiconductor for that matter ).

    3. Olbers' paradox represents on an essential hypothesis of geometric optics and the concept that photon's don't interfere with each other. Some people call such interference spin polarization, some call it gravity, some call it the Force, which you can feel if you close your eyes and bounce up and down cross-legged on your bed.
    (IMO) The CBR is just noise produced by photons you can't see between you and wherever else you're looking - you don't observe the photons that don't get to you - even if they are geodesics).

    And the farther out you look, the smaller the solid angle, and the more the noisy photon-on-photon interference, so the more energy a photon has lost trying to get to you. With Einstein rings (a geometric optics phenomenon as observed) you only vies the "center's in terms of optical light (with a smidgen of (formerly) "dark" matter (i.e., barely observed light) - which in this context of light is dark energy as unobservable photon spin interactions locally. That's why the metric of the stress-energy tensor is not diagonal for the case of gravity... (but then, the characterization of the Universe is not "complete" as Einstein admitted later on, when he admitted the speed of light had to change for such a description (by analogy to refraction where "space-time) as a medium - that is, interpreted as a mass field. What if there is no mass - what does it mean for light to travel through a space where there is no light if the geodesic is a continuous function and quantum mechanics does not apply (h = 0)?

    The philosophical is - If the speed of light is constant on earth (in the parking lot), and it is the only way that we can observe and understand the universe (assuming our brains are quantum limited as calculators), is the Universe a "Ghost in the Maschine" or is it the All-Encompasing Wow? Or are we just noise on the surface of the unit sphere we call earth, or a speck in the stream of consciousness.

    It all depends on your religion....

    (IMO) Cosmology is a fools' errand, since it posits the existence of some (other) observer before you were born... The Big Bang is what happened just before the gleam in your daddy's eye faded out. The only consciousness that exists are Thee and Me, and I am not altogether sure about Thee...

    ----------------------------------------------------
    Science suggests that after the Big Bang, god smoked a cigarette, rolled over, went to sleep, and hasn't been heard from since.

    However, the Bibble teaches that he woke up, knocked up a poor carpenter’s fiancÚ, convinced the locals that it was a virgin birth, and then threw his illegitimate son under the bus when he turned out to be a liberal. The locals testified that the son appeared to them after his death, a story that perseveres to this day, often as images on the crusts of toasted cheese sandwiches.

    God has strong Republican CEO core values...
    And since when do Republican values have anything to do with Christianity?
    Last edited by BuleriaChk; 11-23-2016 at 09:47 PM.
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  3. #13
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    Default Re: The premisses of general relativity theory and BB

    Chuck, you successfully defecated on the page.

    No, it does not depend on what kind of vacuum. No, it does not depend on what kind of observer, whatever that means.
    And you clearly have no understanding of spectroscopy, at all.

    It appears that you tried to 'sound smart' and butt in with "smart stuff" to refute the "science stuff" while you pretended that science is a religion.
    What a load.
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    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    ôScience needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.ö ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  4. #14
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    Default Re: The premisses of general relativity theory and BB

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Chuck, you successfully defecated on the page.

    No, it does not depend on what kind of vacuum. No, it does not depend on what kind of observer, whatever that means.
    And you clearly have no understanding of spectroscopy, at all.

    It appears that you tried to 'sound smart' and butt in with "smart stuff" to refute the "science stuff" while you pretended that science is a religion.
    What a load.
    This from a person who can't even solve basic equations and has never taken a course in real physics from a real University (like UCSB, where I graduated, was accepted into graduate school, and is no slouch as a physics institution, and have actually held technical jobs for extended periods at serious think tanks (Santa Barbara Research Center, General Research). I do have some credentials, unlike Neverfly, who can't share them because he hasn't any.

    Neverfly has no idea of modern physics, only a shallow pop science association, and has done none of the real work in trying to understand the underlying ideas (which are difficult, especially when you have to keep a GPA to get into grad school in the first place.

    Neverfly, have you even taken one course in serious physics at an accredited institution? That required an understanding of calculus (never mind linear algebra?).

    Neverfly obviously had no understanding of the issues raised by the Bohr-Einstein debates, for example. I doubt he is even aware that there were any to begin with.

    I call fraud and bullshit on Neverfly - his pathetic attempt to provide a "speed of light" analysis in terms of classical physics only with a B field and x-vt was just moronic. His physical ideas are shallow and misleading, and the reader would be well counseled to not take anything he says seriously.

    C'mon, Neverfly, at least tell us the high school from which you might have graduated....
    Last edited by BuleriaChk; 11-23-2016 at 09:15 PM.
    _______________________________________
    "Flamenco Chuck" Keyser
    The Relativistic Unit Circle Updates 03/02/2017 12:07 PM PST
    Proof of Fermat's Last Theorem Updates 03/19/2017 8:23 PM PST
    Ignore List -The Peanut Gallery.

  5. #15
    Moderator Neverfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: The premisses of general relativity theory and BB

    All those credentials and you cannot even define a constant?

    Poor Chuck...
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    ôScience needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.ö ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

  6. #16
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    Default Re: The premisses of general relativity theory and BB

    A constant is a mathematical quantity that never changes. Like 1 + 1 = 2. As such, it has only to do with trivial physics (or physics that are profound, neither of which you understand).

    John Gabriel may have been wrong in his definition of the derivative, but at least he had an original idea and defended it as best he could, and had read considerably in his field of interest .... You have nothing except misleading assumptions and wrong hypotheses from pop physics (if even that) about the fundamentals of modern physics.

    Not even ONE credential from Mr. Neverfly? Even in Sociology? Scientology?

    Have you ever even tried to write out a space-time diagram and square it with the time dilation equation?

    (It doesn't bother me that people are uneducated in physics, unless they issue profoundly wrong statements and mislead others - constants w.r.t. .. what? Foundations of Mathematics? The Principia Mathematica? Goedel? Frege? Do you even know what a group is?

    Lessee, now - I said spectra is energy measurement. Are you saying it is not? Like gee, wow, look at all the colors? Sheesh...
    Last edited by BuleriaChk; 11-23-2016 at 09:48 PM.
    _______________________________________
    "Flamenco Chuck" Keyser
    The Relativistic Unit Circle Updates 03/02/2017 12:07 PM PST
    Proof of Fermat's Last Theorem Updates 03/19/2017 8:23 PM PST
    Ignore List -The Peanut Gallery.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: The premisses of general relativity theory and BB

    You are no different than John Gabriel, Chuck. Convinced of your own superiority as you wallow in your own arrogant ignorance. You take actual physics as a base, then slather it in concepts that you make up as you go along.
    You take what others actually say, then make up misrepresentations of what they said to confront them later.
    And all your talk about credentials is just a Crank Ploy to draw your opponent into revealing personal information over the internet. Something that I know better than to do.
    I really am not concerned about your opinion about my personal information. Post after post after post you have been refuted, rebutted and shown your errors and you always react with insults, then you backpedal, then you get quiet for a long while and finally, you post some nonsense hoping others have forgotten what was originally said.
    emperorzelos likes this.
    --Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges--
    ôScience needs the light of free expression to flourish. It depends on the fearless questioning of authority, and the open exchange of ideas.ö ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "When photons interact with electrons, they are interacting with the charge around a "bare" mass, and thus the interaction is electromagnetic, hence light. This light slows the photon down." - BuleriaChk

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