Thread: Possibility of nothing.

Here is a question that may or may not seem stupid to you,but:

Was it possible for the Universe not to have happened?

For that, I mean if everything we speak of is that of coincidence, it was certainly possibly that the South won the war, as was there a possibility that humans never evolved. As such a possibility that our Earth and solar system never came into being.

If all that is true, was it possible for the big bang NOT to have happened and even further than that, was it possible that nothing in the universe exist at all.

Was there a possibility of nothing?

I would say "yes" to all of that. While in our Universe these particular events have clearly happened, it was absolutely possible for them not to have. I would argue, then, that it would have been completely possible for the Universe to never have come into being, and there being an indescribable nothingness where we would hope to see a universe, rather than our own.

No
Probability is only predictive. It is used to compensate for lack of relative data. The more data avalible the closer the prediction aproaches 100%. Once the event occurs there was never a possibility or probability that it could not have occurred. If you roll a die and you can predetermine all of the forces acting on the die you could calculate the result every time. If you lack complete information the best you can do is calculate a probability. The probalility has no bearing on whether the event will actually occur, but only with your anticipation of the event.

There is no evidence that "nothing" exists now or has ever existed. If you discover evidence of nothing let me know and I will help you calculate a probability for it.

What you should think of is the Dimopoulos picture of parameter space. It's a completely random landscape of all possible Platonic universes. In fact they're all being constantly born and budding from other universes. Why does ours exist? Well, we happened to form from a random selection of parameters (energies, masses, coupling constants, symmetry breakings) just as all universes do, but ours happened to be stable enough to exist for a while by random chance. Now we might die a heat death, and other universes might big crunch...most come in and out of existence for a plank time or so before they collapse upon themselves. Somewhere out there there is probably a universe that is static, neither rapidly expanding like ours, or crunching like others. Everything possible is happening at once. God likes to play dice, and he apparently has a jillion die.

Possible? Possibly, but it did. Why, How and What for? Ask God when you get there.

Why is there something rather than nothing, and age old question. Quantum gravity will have to exsplain first why there is a Higgs field, if indeed there is one. Inflationary cosmology is built on the propersition that very earily on the higgs inflaton randomly super cooled and the broke the neccessary symetry to produce the 5% of matter outlined in the standard model. If we are to believe inflationary cosmology and the uncertaintanity principle ( given enough time the non Higgs would randomly aquire a non zero vacuum energy value ), the possibility of nothing would violate the second law of thermodynamics.

i believe we will find the Higgs boson in the lab (if we have not found already, but need so sift thru the results) super hadroncollider will be were it is found. i say within the next 5-10 years. this will validate string theory and the rules of the game will forever change. what are your thoughts on the "membrane" model of the universe?

Logic to me states that something either exists or it does not exist. It is either present or non-present. There is only one and zero. One alone and at rest however is just that, One. But One has infinite potential when put into motion. Let me put it this way. Scientifically we believe the universe began with a singularity, the ONE. That One was then put into motion by means we do not fully understand and it unfolded into the universe we know today. Now apart from this singularity or One, there is nothing, absolutely no potential for anything, the concept we call zero. Zero can never actually be realized only conceptualized. Herein one might consider the first universal duality. Existence versus non-existence, one versus zero. Binary code is based on this concept. Now you or I may look at any single entity and consider it a one, but in actuality that so called entity is but a mere fraction of the motion of that initial ONE. One tiny subset in the grand equation of total presence which in it's entirity and regardless of how complex it becomes must always reduce to that singularity or ONE. So what caused and continues to cause the equation to change, to expand and contract, form matter and energy, etc? Well, perhaps it is nothing more than a force created by these two opposites acting on one another. Or in a less scientific view one might say that it is nothing more than God himself (The ONE) trying to 'fill' the void with his presence or perhaps even merely contemplating the possibility of his own non-existence and through that process expresses the infinite potential that the power of one in motion possesses. And through that process of expression anything that is possible either remains as a possibility in a state of potential or manifests into what we might perhaps call Purpose. Perhaps this is somehow at the heart of what gravity actually is. Not a force created by something we would call gravitons, but rather a force created by the two possible states of presence and non-presence. And as this singularity divides/expands, etc.(relativity/perspective) itself then other forces and degrees of those forces come into being. A strong nucleic or positive (magnetic?) force assosciated most strongly with what is present, a weak nucleic or negative (electric?) force assosciated most strongly with zero and an intermediate force of balance we call electromagnetism which can seemingly exist alone or be utilized to govern both one and/or zero simultaneously.

Perhaps the basic and more complex movements of these various forces create a 'web' of 'strings', virtual lines and planes of existence which we call time and space. And perhaps these individually quantized or combined virtual planes of space and time act in many ways like mirrors opening the possibility of anti-matter, alternate dimensions or even entire alternate universes in a state of existence which we with our limited perceptions cannot perceive readily. It certainly is much to consider.

But as to the initial question of whether or not this universe might not have come into being? Well, had God, the Singularity or whatever you want to call it had not been set into motion, then it certainly would not have manifested, but as long as that singularity did actually exist then it would certainly have been at least possible.

God the singularity ? OH, so when we discover how to meld gravity and the quantum theory, we will see the face of God.

Quantum theory posits that there can no absolute zero - that we can rely on. That shoots the above thesis in the foot from the get go.

Please do not misunderstand my intentions Larry. I fully realize that there can BE no absolute zero. Hence why I state that it cannot be realized, merely conceptualized. Only something which exists in some state, even if only as a possibility, can be realized and a true void can never actually BE. As for the God/Singularity comparison, this is not my ideology. It existed long before I came along. If God exists as traditionally defined and nothing exists apart from him then where else could a universe come into being except from his own infinite potential? These are questions I cannot answer and I do not seek to convince anyone of anything, I merely offer ideas to consider. Accept them or not, it does not change what is true, whatever that might be. If we do someday come up with a theory of everything will we see the face of God? I don't know. Maybe we will, maybe we won't. Who can actually say? Certainly not me.

All I am trying to say is that perhaps these forces we witness at work are created in some way in the same general manner as our own lives unfold. We know that if we do not breath, drink, eat, etc. we will die. This creates a motivating force within us to act and move to stay alive and keep existing. The simple possibility of not existing, whether considered consciously or subconsciously keeps us moving. Maybe in some analogous way this too can describe the universe. Again, just something to consider. Believe what you will.