Thread: Cosmic Ancestry

Cosmic Ancestry is a panspermia theory suggesting not only are the seeds of life everywhere in the cosmos but that evolution to higher forms is in part the result of extraterrestrial genetic programs, introduced through horizontal gene transfer.
I tend to think life in the universe arose nowhere specific, everywhere all the time, as soon as plausible conditions were present, which I recall is said sometime 9-12 billion years ago. I find it plausible, likely even, for life to have spread widely, most likely in its "primitive" forms; Seemingly simple organsims we consider extremophiles.
The earliest known life on Earth was rather complex itself and the time between the planet being habitable and the time it was inhabited appears too short, according to some, to go from organic goo to bacteria and algae. This suggests panspermia as an explanation for the rapid appearance of this not so simple life on Earth.

Panspermia is a long lived theory, withstanding many attempts at discredit. I understand how scientists don't like that it seems to only move the origin elsewhere, but the software / hardware problem for abiogenesis on Earth theories looms large. Because of this I can't help but think that Earth life is at least one transpermic(?) event removed: perhaps from Mars or elsewhere in the solar system; perhaps from planets that likely orbited (and were blown apart or ejected by) the star which went supernova and prompted the collapse of dust and gas that eventually formed our own star.

If (I'm sure we will) and when we find life on Mars or moons in our system I suspect we'll discover it to be not so different, at a biochemical level, from Earth life. When this is realized there'd be virtually no way of discovering an "origin of life in the solar system" would there? I understand Science's need to try at least to understand a possible abiogenesis event on Earth, but IMO this focus has been too narrow. Astrobiology, of course, is shifting our perspective so as panspermia is no longer as shunned as it once was; I daresay it's a major underpinning for the discipline.
Good thing I say.

Well, as in Ray's thread, we've already found mold in the "human genome", so probably we've already sent DNA to Mars.

I think you mean David's thread, but somehow I don't follow. Please expound?

Yeah, probably. Mistakes get made, how can we be sure?

Originally Posted by grapes

Yeah, probably. Mistakes get made, how can we be sure?

We could check the thread itself. Yep, I'm sure it was David's.

So do you think it likely Earth and Mars have swapped genetic material?

Originally Posted by Mr Mirth

We could check the thread itself. Yep, I'm sure it was David's.

Yes, I admit it. It was "my" thread...

That being confirmed, MrMirth, grapes said, in part, "we've already found mold in the "human genome", so probably we've already sent DNA to Mars." You replied, in part, "but somehow I don't follow. Please expound?" To which grapes 'clarified' his statement with "Mistakes get made, how can we be sure?"

Pardon the recap but it appears that what grapes was saying was that we've already screwed up the 'human genome' project and there may have been a good chance that we've managed to somehow get our DNA on Mars - how can we be sure that if any is found there, it wasn't put there by us? I ask: How can we be sure that when we 'pick up samples to test we don't 'make a mistake' and contaminate it with our DNA? (I say 'make a mistake' to be either delibrately or accidentally contaminate it.)

Originally Posted by Mr Mirth

So do you think it likely Earth and Mars have swapped genetic material?

Originally Posted by David E. Eaton Sr.

...
Pardon the recap but it appears that what grapes was saying was that we've already screwed up the 'human genome' project and there may have been a good chance that we've managed to somehow get our DNA on Mars - how can we be sure that if any is found there, it wasn't put there by us? I ask: How can we be sure that when we 'pick up samples to test we don't 'make a mistake' and contaminate it with our DNA? (I say 'make a mistake' to be either delibrately or accidentally contaminate it.)

I didn't take it that grapes said we've already "screwed up" the human genome project, but in my view any life found elsewhere in our system will be related to ours through ballistic or litho- panspermia having taken place over eons.

I think life creates itself along the same standards anywhere and everywhere it can. I don't think Earth is special in that regards. As per earth and mars exchanging genetic material... I dont think its relevant. Whatever genetic material that was sent from one to the other would have to survive the impact, expulsion through an atmosphere, the extreme conditions in space, reentry into another atmosphere, and then collision with the planet. A trip that Im sure would destroy whatever life that was improbable enough to take it. Does my logic seem unsound?

Originally Posted by JFalz1024

I think life creates itself along the same standards anywhere and everywhere it can. I don't think Earth is special in that regards. As per earth and mars exchanging genetic material... I dont think its relevant. Whatever genetic material that was sent from one to the other would have to survive the impact, expulsion through an atmosphere, the extreme conditions in space, reentry into another atmosphere, and then collision with the planet. A trip that Im sure would destroy whatever life that was improbable enough to take it. Does my logic seem unsound?

Over the last 10 to 15 years, experiments have shown that some microorganisms survive all stages of ballistic panspermia, except the transit times. Other experiments have shown some extremophiles can tolerate the conditions of space (eg. B subtillis, D Radiodurans, tardigrades) so the the question now is for how long.

Originally Posted by Mr Mirth

Over the last 10 to 15 years, experiments have shown that some microorganisms survive all stages of ballistic panspermia, except the transit times. Other experiments have shown some extremophiles can tolerate the conditions of space (eg. B subtillis, D Radiodurans, tardigrades) so the the question now is for how long.

My question still persists- who cares? If it started on mars, earth, some planet outside our solar system, if it was a genetic program (although that sounds way to "Ancient Aliens" for me)- the thing I focus on is -it started. And working backwards from what we know... life isn't on mars as far as we know- its less probable on Venus- and likely originated in water.

We should be smart enough by now to realize that organic molecules can be formed in the upper atmosphere due to lightening and drop to the earth in rain. It does this all over, even today. And I'm sure due to the volatility of the early planet it happened much more frequently when she was younger. Some of these molecules collected in a hot spring somewhere and due to the heat and concentration of chemicals (I would think which were present and in what arrangement and concentration) in the pool and after having coalesced into spherical shapes in some foamy residue near the "shoreline"- polymerized along some clay nearby. Vwa-la. The first self replicating cell.